Thiel replacements

Thanks for all the good info so far, although it's not exactly what I wanted to hear.

I moved the speakers apart another 1'+ and moved my seat back about another foot. It did seem to help a little, but its not there yet. Instruments that were before cluttered around the center image have been moved out slightly and have a little room to breath. On recordings where instruments are placed further away from center, though, the sounds seem to still be coming directly from the speakers.

I can't position the speakers along the long wall because the listening position will not be far enough away. The way I have it now is the best it's ever going to get (room wise). I may try some different cables, though, if I can find somewhere that will loan them to me.

I tried switching the polarity on one speaker, and it obviously made the situation worse. It sounded like a mess. It was very fatiguing and nerve wracking, even after a minute of listening. The center image was gone, but it would come back slightly if I switched to mono. Is this consistent with others' observations when switching the polarity on one speaker?

Now, to answer a few questions that have been asked...

Vader, the only room treatment I have is on the front wall between the speakers.

Drubin, the speakers are new (to me), and they have never worked for me. It's tough for me to say what I like about the Thiels. I can say that they are much too harsh, though. They could really use some calming down. Any thoughts?

David, the bass EQ was bad... made horrible noise (actually just a buzz).

I'm already using spikes. I noticed that these helped bass tighten up.

So, of the guys who have owned Thiels in the past... what do you own now? I'm also wondering what speakers would be similar performance wise for about 1K used that would work in a smaller room like mine AND work with my equipment. I listen to jazz and jazz based rock music mostly.

Please keep the info coming. I'm learning a lot about Thiels from this thread!

For people who find Thiels to be too much, I recommend a good tube preamp and either MIT or Transparent cables.

Hi, I thought Drubin's question was a good one (how long have you had them, did you sour on them). I am wondering if you had a chance to hear them before buying on the system that the seller had (i.e. did it sound better in that setup?).

I think a lot of the posters have given you great ideas about how to pull the most out of the Thiels, but it sounds like your complaints are more fundamental. I am wondering if something is grossly wrong (miswiring? blown driver? failed crossover component?). Your equipment sounds to be at least reasonable for Thiels. Have you ever heard them sound good in a different setup? You also could try listening to one channel at a time- this won't give you imaging, but it might help isolate if one side has a gross problem. Just a thought- good luck.

I've sold/owned Thiel's for years. What you have MAINLY, is an acoustical/system setup challenge!....I garantee it.
You are dealing with what so many (ok, most) people deal with every day. Their setup, speaker and seating possition, and their relation is the main and foremost problem, from a foundational standpoint. That and their acoustics overall in the room are not effective to that set up either. Added up, improper speaker, seating, and acoustical treatment considerations will give you AWEFUL SOUND EVERY TIME! From what I'm assuming from your description(although you didn't specify ceiling and floor situation, or sidewall/back wall/front wall specifics), you have some major challenges(the room, setup, speaker, seating placement, acoustic treaments, structural challenges, calibration/tweaks are easily 2/3's the battle sonically!...no joke).
Your room is not 13x18 if you have no left wall, which opens up to the next room(how big is that connection/opening/doorway/whatever?). Your room is acousticallly much bigger, and your dimmensions acoustically are differnt.
How high is your ceiling? What's on your floor and sidewall (right speaker), back and front wall?...bare?
As it stands, you have different(likely radical) frequency response for your left speaker than your right(and vice versa). The right speaker is getting a likely double reflection back to your ears immediately after your direct response from the speaker. This blures and softens image, obscures detail, etc. Your left speaker is more out in "open space", and is giving a differnt signature than your right speaker. If you have a low ceiling, and sit back a ways, you will also have to deal with another reflection issue, with similar affects (assuming flat ceiling).
You couple that with reverb issues, other reflection(non-treated surface) issues, room modes, balance issues, etc, and you have problems.
I bet if you took your same gear, and put it in another room/setup, and you'll get different results!...assuming better setup.
If you can't switch your set up around, and address acoustics issues, you will only go so far with ANY SYSTEM!
Good luck

Hi,

Very interesting. I went through the same thing a couple of years ago and got to the point where I had to get rid of the 2.3's. I could never get used to the harsh sound on certain recordings and since I listen for long periods it was driving me nuts. Heard the speakers - not the music.

To make a long story short I sold them and bought a used pair of Proac 2.5. I am once again REALLY enjoying the music and would never change. These speakers are magic.

Good Luck,

Louis