Power output of tube amps compared to solid states

I found very interesting work that was done by a group of Russians a while back. I am pretty sure I printed it out but I originally found it online. I'll have to see if I can find it again to post a link to it here, but at any rate, they had actually done measurement studies of how different amplifiers amplify Gaussian white noise (much closer to music than a sine wave is). I believe they may have also used music too.

They did Fourier analysis of the outputs of each amplifier and compared them. They found very real differences in the low-frequency reproduction, not much difference in the midrange, and once again some differences in the treble. Then they repeated the tests using the "best" amp of the group with various cables hooked up to its output. I think they used like 10 meter long cables to magnify the effects. Once again, the responses were different with different cables.

I'll see if i can find it again. Last time I looked for it I wasn't able to. But I found it extremely interesting and have not seen anything like it since. Maybe I'll just take some amps to the lab and redo the experiments myself! That's what I should do if I can find the time.

*PS* I just did a search to see if I could find it and ran across this paper. I haven't read it yet but it looks interesting. Too bad the input signals are still sine waves though....

www.apiguide.net/04actu/04musik/AES-cableInteractions.pdf

Arthur

>>03-16-10: Paulfolbrecht
Furthermore, and much more importantly, we know only a very little bit of how to "weight" the results because we know rather little about how the ear/brain system actually works - what sorts of distortions make music unpleasant or unrealistic and what sorts really just don't matter all that much.<<

May I suggest "This is Your Brain on Music" by Dr. Daniel J. Levitin for greater insight.

Given to me as a gift last Father's Day, I'm reading it for the second time as we speak.

Fascinating to say the least.

Orpheus10, the reason it seems subjective is only because the industry as a whole really does not want to talk about the science. For that I point you to the writings of Norman Crowhurst regarding feedback and its effects, also to
http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html

and if you have the time, I recommend reading 'Chaos' by James Gleick. Inside that book (a good primer for Chaos Theory) you will see some interesting waveforms, some of which you have seen before if you have spent any time around audio gear. BTW, Norman Crowhurst actually has charts of the strange attactors that govern the behavior of audio amplifiers using loop negative feedback, although he had no idea at the time that years later those charts would be associated with strange attactors.

General Electric also proved some fundamental rules of human hearing the mid-60s, which for the most part was totally ignored by the audio industry (how we perceive volume through the presence of 5th,7th and 9th harmonics). This work has been extended in the 21st century by Dr. Herbert Melcher, a noted neuro-chemist, who has discovered that as an audio reproduction system violates human hearing rules (too much of the wrong distortions, too slow, stuff like that) that the processing of sound moves from the human limbic system to the cerebral cortex- and for this he actually has hard numbers!

IOW there is plenty of science, much of it on-going, to support why tube power seems more powerful; like I mentioned before, its not about the power, its about how the technologies distort.

I don't have the scientific background that many here obviously have, and perhaps I'm missing something but, I haven't seen anything here that would appear to qualify as evidence, never mind proof of the claims that tubes are more powerful than ss. In some cases there appears to be contradictions from previous arguments making the same claim, and an absence of perhaps other considerations. It would appear that some references might potentially support the other point of view. There's a big difference between coincidence, correlation and causation. Still a very good read and I encourage further contributions. Very interesting.

My understanding from the experts is not that tubes are more powerful, rather they distort in a less offensive way that makes them able to go louder before the listener takes offense.