which budget preamp?

hi and thank you for your input. my problem here really is tube or no tube.
i'd like a new mm stage, but it could include mc as well, for 400 bucks. i've spoken with several "experts" and they all tell me different things. one expert told me he would never go with a tube phono stage as the inherent quality of vinyl already lends itself to warm and cozy so tubes just soften the sound too much. another expert told me that ss will bring the sound closer to that of a cd. neither one appeals to me. i was curious about the jolida but one dealer said they are difficult to acquire and even more difficult to deal with should there be a problem. i like the vincent pho8 because of the big power unit but no one in calgary has ever heard of vincent. i like the tubeboxll because it matches my other tt gear, but have been told totally opposite things about it.
finally i like the rega phono because according to everybody, its awesome.
i want big clean punchy smooth and deep, and just a little more from a system that already sounds great. i told my wife this thing is the last thing i buy for the stereo, so i can't mess it up.

Well, let's see here:

"Expert" #1 gave you a lazy, well-worn, thoroughly discreditable generalization... the kind you hear from the ignorant... or somebody trying to sell you something else. Find a better "expert". And BTW, proper reproduction of vinyl is not [over]warm or "cozy". Cozy is Miss Marple soaking her feet after a long morning picking mint leaves down the lane for her Wild Rose tea. She probably still listens to a Quad 303. But I've heard a LOT of solid state systems that sound a bit like that -- boooring.

If "Expert" #2 thinks vinyl through a good solid state phono preamp sounds like a CD, he's either got one HELL of an amazing CD player... or he's got one crappy vinyl rig. More likely, he's ignorantly repeating tired old sales pitch fodder from very lonely hi-fi salesmen. Find another "expert". And YOU are absolutely right -- you don't want that.

#3 -- The "dealer expert": Jolida as unobtainium? Really?! There seems to be enough people dealing these via order-taking and drop-shipping, let alone people stocking them... You need another "dealer" -- call up Wally at Underwood; see what he says. And if you find just ONE, what do you care who else can find one? Better for you when you want to sell and upgrade, if true... however... And are the Jolida people difficult? Ask Wally. Response Audio has done Jolida mods for some time, so ask Bill, too, about the state of Jolida.

I personally have no "insider" knowledge on the matter, other than dealers I've spoken with who DO handle the line having said to me they choose Jolida because it makes their life EASIER than alternatives, not harder.

If you haven't read it, see my response to 'Pmp' -- the thread, "Phono pre-amp", referenced in my entry above. We have 3 people asking more-or-less the same question here at once. Pick up all the responses.

The Vincent might be a decent choice if you must go solid state -- I have heard two good reports from people I don't really know, but who I have some reason to believe weren't way off base. Not a hearty endorsement, I know, but I have to be honest about the circumstances. The Vincent, I expect, is an op amp design. You can almost always improve such units a lot, at modest cost, with a swap of chips to hi-test units. Many can advise you here. I agree with you that the separate power supply chassis seems promising.

But "no one in Calgary has... heard of Vincent"? Where did you check, Best Buy?! Let's see, Calgary's population is 1,071,515 at last count. I see things are a little slow up there -- sorry -- but man, your experts need to get out and about [a-boot?] more. Call Tom Myers, the U.S., and now Canadian, distributor for the brand (W.S. Distribution) -- I'll bet HE'S heard of Vincent.

The Rega phono preamp will not be "awesome", and not even close. You don't get awesome for this kind of bread -- sorry. But Rega mostly know their stuff, and would be idiots not to give this product their best shot for the bucks involved, given all the phono products they'd like to step you up to. A used Brio integrated amp off Audiogon will give you more-or-less the same thing (plus the rest, of course), and your investment won't depreciate away on you to a disappointing fraction. I believe you'll find that will be the story with low-cost solid state phono preamps: who on this site is going to buy one used? eBay? Good luck. And BTW, note that Rega have REVAMPED THE SS LINE: an opportunity to get an improved product new, perhaps; or a chance to find a last generation Brio or Mira here cheap. Watch this space. One more time, read my other post and digest it carefully. You'll thank me.

I'm happy with the Pro-Ject PhonoBox II with my RPM 1.3. I have no idea if you would like it in your system though.

Thanks seakayaker for your thoughts and advice. I will read your thread I promise. What about the tubeboxll. Not the se, can't afford it. And why is there so much modding going on. I read about a jd9 that was tweaked to the max. I get the feeling that every one of the "experts" is unhappy that I can only spend 400 bucks and unless I spend 700 or a 1000 I might as well forget about it. Which sucks cause I only have 400. My system is very entry level so spending big bucks on a phono preamp is not something I think I should do. I work in the restaurant business and I can sell you a bottle of wine for 250 bucks, if that's what you want to spend. But I can also sell you a bottle for 60 that is pretty damn delicious. One guy told me that too much of a good thing(adding tubes) can result in a real disappointment. And again how do I know they're not just trying to move certain stock? When I bought my tt I bought it because it filled three specific criteria. It was exactly the price I could afford, the motor was completely separate, and I could use my own interconnects. I have since upgraded the stylus and am very happy with it. I would have loved a clear audio concept, or even the project expression, but they were just too much. So for 400 bucks which phono preamp do you think is best?

The Jolida JD-9 is good even if you don't get NOS tubes, don't replace capacitors, etc. It's good period. Decking it out will make it even better, but that just means you have room to grow without needing to start all over again.

No need to fall into the trap the rest of us have fallen into. Plenty of time for that later. Seriously, it really is good. World beating can wait.