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2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
^^^^
1. The CS Port LFT1 looks like a non-suspension plinth design, with a very heavy slate plinth. The actual resonance control is taken up by the air bearing, whereas the La Platine uses pneumatic footers. If as suggested by @lewm we defeat the pneumatic footers with solid blocks, then there would be no resonance controlling mechanism in the La Platine, as the magnets will not be serving that function. would that be correct?

Albert
Your statement is half right as it pertains to the Granito La Platine model. On the Granito model the resonance control is performed by a combination of the plinth and the pneumatic footers.

"Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble becoming from different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement.
And of course machined and polished to obtain a good looking result. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities." JC Verdier

"Anyone", that suggests removing the footers and or changing out the Granito plinth - has not come to understand the design, concept, and execution of what is at play.

Furthermore.

The Granito version was very expensive to make. The story is on the Verdier website, and eventually led to the current modern day black glossy plinth. I have an email somewhere from JC Verdier on how a secondary Granito limited run was done at one time for the Japanese market, due to demand.

**************************************************************
Re: Platter System Braking Behavior

Unlike any platter systems that I used to be familiar with, in that they were ....free spinning. This platter system has what I would call, a form of active management.

"The same pole magnets play a part in providing braking action to deal with the records behavior." - JC Verdier.

Albert
With your turntable at speed and no record playing. Turn off the motor. Count the seconds for the platter to come to a complete stop.
Now repeat, and this time just cut the thread. The braking behavior will reveal itself to you.
One comes to realize with this experiment the marriage of the Verdier Motor and Platter System, and how foolish it is to split them up.



lbelchev
64 posts
 
Albert, my two cents about La Platine speed stability:

1. Check the axle adjustment. If you use a steel ball check the resistance point between the ball and the spindle. The steel ball should be in contact with the spindle, almost but without pressure. If you do not use a steel ball, the axle should not be in contact with the spindle.  In this case just catch the resistance point and than slightly return back the axle via the adjustment screw. Therefore some play will be necessary (60 to 80th of an inch is sufficient) .The still ball is not absolutely necessary. You can chose to remove it if you want and it is not necessary in such case to modify the adjustment of the axle. If you want to change the mat and/or record clamp it is necessary to adjust the axle.

2. "One of the Verdier’s little foibles: the bottom of the main bearing is designed to leak oil! With an inverted bearing, gravity causes lubricating oil to flow to the bottom of the shaft, leaving the top part dry. Over tune, this oil will eventually make its way to the bottom of the axle where it collects in the axle base cup... If all this conjures up visions of getting out dip-sticks to check oil levels before going for a spin, don’t worry. The oil reservoir is generous, and the rate of seepage low. Also, as the oil is thick, it tends to cling to the sides of the bearing. All the same, this turntable needs rather more maintenance than your average deck..." James M Hughes, "HI-FI NEWS - February 1999"
So, every few weeks 0.5-1.0 cc of oil should be added to the reservoir next to the spindle to keep the axle lubricated. Use the supplied oil or Mobil 15W-30.

Enjoy
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
^^^^^^^

This so called "Ball"

When I first heard of this "ball" years ago, I immediately thought, it is no different than the stories I hear of some people actually using a belt with this thread design. I mean ...why even bother...seriously.

Go look for a belt drive design turntable.

So I asked JC Verdier about this so called "ball".

JC Verdier
So I will tell you another time what is told.
The possible installation of the ball was proposed to answer some customers who want to try to use the ball.
At the beginning it was only optional .
But later , to normalized the manufacturing , I included systematically the kit steel ball + ceramic past.
For my part I am not in favour of using the ball in accordance with the original design .
Probably you have this original design so you don’t have the steel ball.
Don’t worry about the stories of pirates , for sure some of them tried to attract customers by copies , because they are not able to conceive a product by themselves .
I don’t have any of them in hands and I have no comment on their working.
For sure that should be easy if only a steel ball could let a turntable work properly!
JC Verdier


So the lesson here is Business is Business even with Verdier.

The unfortunate thing is people acquiring a newer version of this turntable with a "ball" think it is normal.....do not understand the reason it is there.

fwiw -
I have never had to add oil to the reservoir on my La Platine Granito. It does not leak.

lbelchev
64 posts
 
@ct0517  Yes, I agree about the ball.
Platine Verdier users have debated a lot about the advantages and disadvantages of using a steel ball. Removing it is from our point of view the best solution to preserve the turntable from noise and vibrations.
Instructions manual
My bearing does not leak too. But it is open inverted bearing -  the oil flow very slowly to the bottom of the axle.  It's just physics.

Recharging the bearing with oil should be a monthly routine. The consumption of oil is dependent on temperature an how much the turntable is used.
Instructions manual
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
@lbelchev 
oh I have tried to add oil.
Unfortunately, unlike my 993, it doesn't take much. 8^(
I'm sure it is taking a little.

I don't see a debate with the ball. It's a Vibration Resonance (VR) activity to generate a small signal. Adding in additional points of conduit is never good. The manufacturer has done everything possible to isolate, especially in the use of dissimilar materials, to control resonances. The differing materials between the platter and spindle one example most never see.

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