3 preamps with transformer hum, DC on the line?


Hi everyone,

Searched the first couple of pages around transformer hum but did not find any specific answer around this. I have had the 3 following preamps in my main system with transformer hum, most of them on a dedicated 20 amp line:

- NAD T163 A/V preamp
- Audio Refinement Pre-DSP 2
- Audio Refinement Pre5 (current preamp)

Like I said, all had transformer hum. The problem reproduces with all other main breakers off except the dedicated 20 amp line and the preamp plugged into that dedicated line. I called my power company today requesting that diagnostics on the line into my house be done (check for DC and possibly adjust the AC frequency)? This would be great if this fixed my issue. I have also tried a PS Audio Humbuster III which did remove most of the hum but also killed the high frequencies so I removed it. If the power line diagnostics all check out, would you:

- Try to have the Audio Refinement Pre5 transformer repaired at Audio Plus Services which is USA YBA distributor and service minimum of $250 plus shipping both ways from Seattle to NY. I also have a good local solid state repair shop and I plan on calling them today to see if they can repair this locally. Is repair just a short term band-aid on what could be a tired power supply?
- Try to find a high quality replacement for the Audio Refinement Pre5 transformer. I have no idea what this would cost or how I could find a high quality drop in transformer.
- Have an external high quality power supply made like one from Welborne Labs made.

What does everyone think? The last two options look to be the cheapest route with new parts and warranties vs repairing used parts.

TIA very much,

Scott
sbrownnw
DC on an AC power line is highly unlikely unless you live in the third world. You can easily check this with a DVM. Just set it to DC volts and put it across the line.

The AC frequency is set at the generating power station and cannot be "adjusted". It's usually very accurate and variation will not cause hum problems.

DC is also unlikely to cause "hum", if you are speaking about electrical noise. Are you speaking of an audible noise coming directly from the equipment (and not through speakers/headphones)? Are the transformers overheating?

Have you checked the grounds in your house wiring? Bad grounds could account for hum problems.
DC on an AC power line is highly unlikely unless you live in the third world.
04-04-12: Dhl93449
Not true.

You can easily check this with a DVM. Just set it to DC volts and put it across the line.
04-04-12: Dhl93449
Not true.

Are the transformers overheating?
04-04-12: Dhl93449
DC offset on the mains will cause an xfmr to run hotter than normal.

Have you checked the grounds in your house wiring? Bad grounds could account for hum problems.
04-04-12: Dhl93449
Not xfmr mechanical vibrating noise.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1209767274&openflup&6&4

http://www.altavistaaudio.com/hum.html#trafo

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/xfmr-dc.htm

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/xfmr-dc.htm#dc1
.
one other thing you can try (which costs money, of course!) is to use a AC power regenerator (like one of thos PS Audio units P300, P600, P1200 or Power Plant Premier) or from PurePower.
The AC power from your wall will be used to power the electronics inside the AC regenerator but the AC power regenerated should be clean.

Looks like you might have a mechanical hum in the xformers. Does putting a brick or some heavy weight on top of the xformer stop the humming? Of course, put the heavy weight on the xformer when your preamp is off to avoid any personal harm.
So, I took the case off the preamp today and tightened all power supply screws (none really budged). Powered it up with every breaker turned off except my dedicated 20 amp AV line and only the preamp plugged into the dedicated outlet. Still hums - grrrr.

It looks like I have very few options, some which I cannot afford and 1 I really am not sure I want to do:

1. Send back to Audio Plus Services (Seattle to NY). Anyone had any experience with this shop and their service dept? I can see a $250 diagnosis bill plus shipping both ways and them coming back saying there is either nothing wrong with it or they are unable to fix it. Really not sure about this route. Probably a No.

2. A custom or 3rd party power supply is probably out of the question after looking at various wires coming off the factory power supply. No.

3. Trying a PS Audio or similar power regenerator. Too expesive. No.

4. Going to an integrated amp if I can find an Audio Refinement Alpha Complete in black that does not hum in 8/10 shape I just might do it. I've heard it is a good unit but not as good as my Audio Refinement separates, especially the Pre 5. A Maybe.

5. Trying my best to get the power company come out and test the line. Hopefully something that is easily addressable and I can actually get the power company to show up and test the line and do it for free (I do pay them for a resource with hopefully some kind of service level agreement backing it.

6. Going to try a Environmental Potentials DigiPlug Stationary in series before my Porter Port on my dedicated 20 amp line. They will do a 30 day refund trial and I can do the wiring myself. A Yes and hope it fixes things.

What I really don't get is that all 3 preamps I've tried do hum and got better with using the PS Audio Humbuster, but again, I lost the high frequencies so the PS Audio Humbuster is out. If it is that common of a problem, why is there not more of an industrial standard that avoids this problem. On top of that, the Linn Classik K music (integrated amp with tuner and CD player) just cranks away with no hum but does not sound as good as my current Audio Refinement gear and probably loses out to the Audio Refinement Complete Alpha integrated also.

Things that annoy you with their hum...
BTW, the Linn Classik is part of my bedroom system with some Tukans and is not on a dedicated line and I have quite a few dimmers in the house.