$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Thanks for the valued insights, Tom. Based on your explanation it does make sense to me that the additional rotating mass can have a positive impact on bass response, which is what I have heard when I moved to a table with a much more massive platter. I suppose that in a similar fashion a more massive plinth has the same effect, being that it is more solidly "grounding" the arm and bearing so that the stylus has a better chance of translating all of the information in the groove.

I do understand your meaning in the quote from you that DougDeacon referenced. I think so many times we just engage in bench racing here on the forums, it is fun, but sometimes we loose touch with the reality that nothing is perfectly defined or modeled and certainly nothing is perfectly implemented. Perhaps I have an advantage in some small way because I don't fully understand what all of the tradeoffs are and how they impact the sound. Well advantage probably isn't the right word, ignorance is bliss is a better description of my current audio prowess. But I do love music and I get very excited each time I open a new door in this hobby. I just have to take a bite of the apple but it seems there could be a price to pay.

Hey Artar1,

I've been reading this thread and it has been a blast. I saw your message where you said you were buying vinyl without the turntable to play it and that you like classical. Have you ever seen this list of recordings before?

Highend Audio by Arthur Salvatore

I hope I installed the link correctly. If not, here is the link to do a cut'n'paste:

http://www.high-endaudio.com/supreme.html#Con

Arthur Salvatore can be pretty controversial but so far, the recordings that I have managed to acquire that are on his "excellent recordings" list are awesome in sonic quality.

One other thing I was curious about is the demo you heard of the high end cartridge on the Denon Direct Drive. Just curious as to which Denon model it was and although detail was lost, did it still sound pretty damn good? I currently have a fairly modified Denon DP-59L that works great in my book but someday, I will also have a decent belt drive unit too (need to keep pinching those pennies).

Mr. Kidknow

Doug,

>>Now you have to work out ROFLMAO.<<

Hmmmm…

Wait a minute…I think I have it…no wait…Hmmmm…

Don’t tell me: it’s how a dyslexic spells “Alfa Romeo?”

>>Well, that's probably the 25-year-old cart and 10-year-old suspension. It was musical though, with no extraneous noise from the TT of course. How was the Koetsu/Denon setup in that respect?<<

Well, I have to sort out the contribution made by the speakers to the overall sound, but I think I can do it.

First, the Denon was very susceptible to acoustic feedback like sticking one’s head in a rain barrel while someone else was beating it with a club. Now, that’s an exaggeration, but I was very conscious about NOT getting out of my chair to wander around the room, a small den on the second floor, for fear that my footfalls would be transferred to the speakers. I also noticed that Bob was also very careful not to jump up suddenly while the record was playing. I further noticed that Bob lowered the Denon’s dust cover VERY carefully, which still managed to send a LOUD thud to the speakers. You know, the sound of dropping a 100lb bag of potatoes from a second story building. These experiences told me that the plinth and platter (a good name for a pizza parlor for audiophiles) were doing a very poor job of providing good isolation and damping.

Second, while the midrange was clear and present, I noticed a lack of good pitch definition in the bass, which may have been due to the Carver Amazing Cubes rather than the cartridge. And there was a noticeable lack of upper-octave bloom and air that should have been there. When the music was first turned on, the subs were outputting too much “boom,” so the first order of business was to reduce their output. Then I had Bob adjust the bass Q of his Amazing speakers to 1, which is fairly tight and fast. This is how I have my woofers set up, and I believe it better corresponds to lower frequency reproduction in the concert hall and in real life, such as artillery fire, which I have heard close up. (By the way, no subwoofer ever made can even come close to reproducing the retort of a 105mm howitzer. Maybe that’s why I seldom listen to the finale of “The 1812 Overture” that so many audiophiles insist on playing. Give me a string quartet any day!)

Once the bass was brought back into line, Bob “goosed” (honk!) the midrange so that it would have more presence, but not at the expense of the very top octave. All was well, but I still noticed a slight lack of the rich overtones that live music possesses, especially when it’s played in the San Francisco Opera House. Okay, no biggie I told myself, but then I had to remember that I was listening to a $10,000 cartridge (now $13,000), and I was a little underwhelmed!

At the Analog Room many years ago, I heard a Koetsu cartridge on a Sota Sapphire Turntable with a modified SME tonearm driving a pair of Quad ESL 63s. Wow! There was life, breath, depth, air, and atmosphere in the records being played, a sound so beautiful that no CD player I have ever heard regardless of cost could possibly match. With this “gold” standard in mind, the Denon/Koetsu sounded more like a smooth, homogenized CD than really great vinyl; that’s how much deadening was applied to the music thanks to the Denon turntable.

While the midrange had presence, clarity, transparency, and openness that were very impressive, it lacked the ultimate in layering, shimmering nuance, and three dimensionality of the best tube/analog-based systems I have heard. The electronics were partly to blame, for they added a very slight dryness to the mix, but it was minor. Nevertheless, the Koetsu cartridge was at the helm, and I expected more, but the slightly dulling effects of the amp/preamp/turntable combination held it back. If the Koetsu had been mounted on your turntable, Doug, I would predict a far different outcome. Gone would be the sublime neutrality of your ZXY, and in its place we would be bathed in glorious golden tones with exquisite air and detail.

Huba! Huba! Huba! Oops, I think I need a cold shower!

Glorious golden goo you mean, and a shower would definitely be in order! I've heard two good Koetsu's on a Teres (RSP and Urushi). A ZYX sounds more like real music to me, YMMV.

Nice description though. You painted a good picture of this guy's setup and it ain't pretty. Carver Amazing Cubes? Midrange tone controls? Pity he wasted so much dough on a cartridge. He could have gotten better sound for half the money by asking Twl or the guys at the Analog Room.

Meet you at the Plinth & Platter for a Pint?

Mr. Kidknow: I'll add a "second" to your recommendation of Arthur Salvatore's Supreme Records list. If you're fond of classical music, this is a great list to peruse.
http://www.high-endaudio.com/index_ac.html

When I first saw Arthur's list appear several years ago, I was pleased to see how closely his list and my record collection coincided. So, I'm biased. His recommendations track right along with my own experience, including his contrarian comments about LP collecting and which pressings sound more like real live music (largely). Not sure he and I see quite as "eye-to-eye" when it comes to his equipment recommendations, however. But I sure do respect the man for his LP recommendations!
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