A Copernican View of the Turntable System

Hi Folkfreak,
We must be related.....
Palladian cartridge, Herzan.....😁
I trust you're still enjoying the Palladian..?

Your supporting shelf for the turntable is most unusual....
I can understand the reasoning behind it (assuming you have springy floorboards)....but perhaps you swapped one problem for another..?
Suspension systems (as I know from engineering) are designed to MOVE...😱
Not only side to side, but also up and down depending on the details.
I can well understand how the readouts are more severe than in my situation.
The Herzan in your case must really be earning its keep....👍
On the positive side, the differences when the isolation is 'ON' compared to 'OFF' must be night and day...?
Are you able to describe the effects you are hearing?

Regards
Henry

@halcro 

I've noticed that both you and J.Carr have recently 'transferred' over to 'The Dark Side' by adopting the new Technics SL1200 DD turntable over your previously loved belt-drives.
The Empire in your case and the Final Labs and big Micro Seiki in Jonathan's.

Halcro,
As far as I know JCarr was using a Marantz TT1000 DD as a daily runner.

His Final Audio TT has been in storage - last I heard he was wanting to build a new  motor drive system because he found the Final too complicated due to the fact that the Final system requires an external power amplifier to drive the motor. Effectively you have a preamp (sine/cosine wave generator), power amp, interconnects and speaker cables plus external motor to drive the 26kg platter. Even worse, you can hear substandard amplifiers and cabling as clear as a bell which means you are up for decent power amp and cables plus the TT & controller. I use an Onix OA60 amplifier ( sounded much better than the Rowland power amp I previously used to drive the TT  ) and all MIT cabling in my Final TT set up. Needless to say the Final Audio Research TT is not for minimalists.   

As far as I know JCarr was using a Marantz TT1000 DD as a daily runner.

You're right Dover...

My TT-1000 by itself has a little less mass in the platter system than stock (I needed to shave down the top of the platter to get a flat surface for the graphite mat to bond onto). Add the center clamp, and the net weight ends up pretty close to stock - not enough to warrant readjusting the servo gain.

He goes on....

Dover, you have a Final Audio? So do I (grin). My unit predates the Takai-era Parthenon, but is new enough to have the SPZ plinth rather than the original granite. It also has the bi-phase motor controller. FWIW, Kitamura's preferred material for mat and clamp was chrome copper rather than gun-metal. 

And then more....

Even on my Micro-Seiki SZ-1S, which has a 28kg machined stainless-steel platter and integral vacuum clamp as well as air bearings for the platter and motor/flywheel, I ended up keeping the air bearings engaged and defeating the vacuum clamp (although I did prefer to insert a mat between LP and platter surface).

Impressive collection...
That Micro is higher up the scale than the SX/RX-8000 I believe...
http://www.thevintageknob.org/micro_seiki-SZ-1.html
But I wonder if he's gone over to the new Technics SL1200 in place of the Marantz...or is he a 'paid' mouthpiece......?

Halcro, As far as I know JCarr was using a Marantz TT1000 DD as a daily runner.

That is correct. There was a TT1000 for sale on ebay a few years back for local pickup only very close to me. He wanted a second one. I was going to pick it up for JCarr and give it to the AU Lyra importer to ship to Jon in Japan. LOL - they were outbid on ebay by someone else.
All his other turntables are in storage.

cheers

@halcro yes, we do share similar tastes in some regards

the Grand Prix Audio Brooklands shelf is not in any way springy or flexible -- once correctly installed and locked down it is completely rigid. The only compliance on the design is in the typical GPA sorbothane discs that sit under the shelf and with the Herzan I have defeated these by simply overloading them.

Furthermore in my current installation the shelf is not actually attached to the wall but is instead mounted on three dedicated studs that are not connected to the drywall, each stud is in turn damped by an ASC stud damper.

Herzan were concerned that this would be an installation that fought against the active isolation but I have had no issues. The main problem the active platform addresses is seismic disturbance from construction (plus traffic and quake of course) there are six active multi story construction sites within a two block radius of my house and the whole area is reclaimed wetland so not the most secure of foundations. All of my stands and my speakers are seismically isolated via roller ball type footers or Townshend podia

The effect of active isolation is to make the table sound more stable and secure. Peaks no longer overload, bass seems diminished but is in fact cleaner, lower and more detailed. Frankly all of the euphonic (and nice to listen too) distortions of LP playback are significantly reduced and my LPs sound much more like my digital system but with all the air, emotion and interior dynamics that analog always excelled at. The improvement is actually most obvious with mono recordings which become even more dynamic and clear. I would certainly put the impact of adding active isolation above either an arm or cartridge upgrade, it would be interesting to see if a sub $10k analog rig on a Herzan outperformed a $20k one without it, I suspect it would

The Palladian is still performing exceptionally, I used to have issues with stylus muck build up but since getting an ultrasonic cleaner this is a problem I no longer have. I’m still waiting on a new arm board from EAR so I can drop the arm another .5mm which I think will be ideal but other than that no concerns. Where do you have yours riding relative to horizontal? At present I’m a hair tail up which is as low as my arm can go with the sub board I currently have to use