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A question of loading...

I have just replaced my aging tube preamp with a new model. When I was using my older model with tube phono stage, I would run my Lyra Kleos and other MC cartridges with a load of 750 ohms. So, I assumed that with my new tube phono stage, which also utilizes a transformer in the phono stage and is also built into my new preamp, that the same cartridge loading would apply. I listened to the Kleos for about a week with this loading, and frankly, while it was fine, I wasn’t bowled over. Tonight I decided to experiment, so the first thing I did was to run the cartridge straight in, with no loading plugs. WOW, the increase in overall musicality and soundstage width was eye opening! Lesson learned is that not all gear is going to react the same when it comes to cartridge loading, particularly if there is a transformer involved and even if you are using the same cartridge from one phono stage to the next! An eye opener, anyone else experience something like this?
128x128daveyf
fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
950 posts
 
I do rue your gas, Raul. 
There is nothing in Daveyf's posts to indicate he is using an Etna Lambda or a Manley phono stage. You seem to be confusing me with him. Second, there is nothing in your link that even remotely addresses the issue. Are you inebriated when you post sir? It would explain much.
//S// Fsonicsmith Eating Raul. 
dover
2,243 posts
 
@fsonicsmith 

Your 1st email above is impossible to decipher

unloading to 25 does produce a very euphonic lively sound
25 what ? - 25 ohms or 25kohms ?
If you mean 25ohms you are loading the cartridge, not unloading it.
If you mean 25kohms, then you are indeed "unloading it", relative to say 100ohms.
Too much loading and the sound becomes lifeless.You have to strike a balance. For my Etna, it is 50K. 
This statement is oxymoronic.
 "too much loading and the sound becomes lifeless" - I agree with this if you mean loading down to 50, 100 ohms etc.
"For my Etna, it is 50k" -  50 kohms is unloading, its higher than the standard 47k.






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rauliruegas
13,051 posts
 
Dear @fsonicsmith  : I know what I posted perfectly, no problem with.

I took what you posted only as an example of what M.Huber states in his site but I know that you not download the information about that's pertinent to that 50K/Manley combination.

Read again what I posted to Davey and you will know you are wrong on your statement.

R.
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
2,871 posts
 
@rauliruegas   Thanks for your post and the link. I did read the link. Seems like FM believes that 20-500 ohms works best for MC cartridges. While this may be true with their preamp, it was not true with my older CAT as it sounded best loaded to 750 Ohms and NOT lower and as stated in my OP, my new model CAT sounds way better unloaded! 
fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
950 posts
 
For my Etna, it is 50k" -  50 kohms is unloading, its higher than the standard 47k.
You are showing your ignorance Dover. 47K is not standard for a MC and not standard with the Etna Lambda, which I am listening to as I type this. 47K is the standard for MM. Not for MC. We vinyl junkies, for better or worse, refer to lower capacitance as unloading even though you are technically correct. Why is this? Because as you lower loading values, the cantilever is subject to less damping. At the end of the day it is damping and not technical numbers that counts. Someone who knows his stuff wrote this;
The loading that the owner adds is a resistor in parallel to the signal path. That means that the higher the value of that resistor, the LOWER the amount of loading. Higher loading (lower value of the resistor) tends to damp high frequency peaks. With modern cartridges, the peak is usually well into the ultrasonic range, so loading is not needed as much as was the case in the past to correct for peaks. Jonathan Carr, the designer and builder of Lyra cartridges is among those who believe that additional loading is not needed to damp such peaks and it takes away some of the extension and open and airy sound on top. However, even though the peak is outside of the normal hearing range, it can be high enough in amplitude to overload some phono stages. He believes that loading is more important for preventing such overloading than in taming the frequency response of cartridges. I tend to agree with this. I happen to have a phono stage that does not overload and I like to run my MC cartridges (Lyra Titan and Transfiguration Orpheus L) wide open.

Sometimes, loading helps to suppress RF interference. A friend had a Hovland preamp that was passing a lot of hashy noise. It turned out that the factory default loading was 100k (essentially no loading). When we increased loading, the noise went away.

There is absolutely no harm in utilizing any particular amount of loading so one can experiment. I tend to find that higher levels of loading, say any value lower than 100 ohms, makes the sound warmer, more bass prevalent and shut down on top. Also, the lower the resistor value, the lower the total output so that volume level will go down. As a very rough rule, with most cartridges, a load of about 125 to 150 works perfectly well, and no much difference is heard if a higher value resistor (lower loading) than that is used.


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