Amp Internal Wire


Hi Gents, has anyone have any experience with upgrading amp or preamp internal signal wire? Most older equipment seems to have thin maybe sometimes poor internal wiring. In the world of OFC/OCC/Sterling and even more exotic wire available these days, any experiments done using this internally on components swapping out the cheap?

Lots of discussion about doing this with speakers, but never with components I've seen. For instance, I am thinking about replacing copper 'appliance' wire in an old Bryston with 14awg sterling from the board to the speaker binding post board.

 

Any thoughts?

rickysnit

Rhetorical question but why would one install a high end exhaust system in their vintage car to gain a few horse power and enjoy the job, knowing that Ford or Toyota wouldn’t install that level of exhaust quality out of the factory - engineers know there is better, but there is a business decision.

Except they would and do depending on the vehicle. A high performance exhaust system made in high volume is but a small price adder and if it is increasing performance then it should be increasing MPG, highly saleable today. However that performance comes with trade-offs. The exhaust gives higher RPM horsepower, but usually gives up some low RPM torque. It likely results in a more peaky HP curve hurting how the car feels, while obviously being louder, and in real world driving, does not improve the MPG.

 

There are probably better analogies even for electronics where you could ask yourself why they don't use silver wire. I will leave those up to you.

 

and when we might compare this to pieces of copper Appliance Wire (AWM) used in the stock amp, not too far off from Home Depot material, I would bet fairly heavily Mundorf will be a change for the better.

 

What do you think the PCB traces that carry the majority of the signal are made of? What is the dielectric of the PCB?  I would take that bet without hesitation. HD used to sell something equivalent to AWM1015. Maybe they still do.

For years I have modified amps changing out the power cords ( non iec inlets ) to heavier gauge, speaker wire to the output posts, and in some cases, the low level signal wires. Always made a sq difference, usually for the better. Unless someone tries it, they should not have an opinion on whether it changes the sound, or not. Just my opinion and experience. Always, MrD.

Copper with a dielectric of whatever non-conductive material, don't care - PCB is not in scope, we can't make the board with Mundorf traces, at least not yet. You might want to try experimenting yourself, it's astounding what changes like this can bring, whether it's in your encyclopedia set or not.

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I’m not getting into the debate over conductor material but would recommend Teflon for the insulator. Why? High melting temperature so less likely to damage it while soldering and then there is the whole low dielectric absorption thing.

Teflon is usually reserved for silver or silver plated wire. The reason is the extrusion temperature is too high for copper- if it was OFC before, it won’t be after.

If you are using copper wire, you are better off with a polyethylene insulation. The reason is it will melt and seal the wire, thus preventing oxidation. FWIW, Teflon typically does not seal the wire, so the wire beneath can be considered oxidized. Fun fact: polyethylene easily rivals or surpasses Teflon at certain frequencies.

Here’s another interesting tidbit: OFC was originally created for things like generators, where the wire had to survive vibration without failure. Its about 99.99% pure; there is no such thing (except in marketing) as ’6 nines’ copper due to oxidation issues.

Bryston was one of the few amp vendors also to state that aftermarket power cords are a total waste or money, so take that what you will.

Apparently they have not caused their hand to move to make the measurements if what you say here is true. To make the measurements simply run the amp to full power and measure the voltage drop across the power cord. Then adjust the AC line voltage (you do have a variac, right?) to compensate and measure full power again. For fun you can also measure distortion and output impedance...

In tube power amplifiers in particular, because of their filament circuits being unregulated, the seemingly small voltage drops you see on power cords can cause a lot of changes in the amplifier since the filament temperature is affected along with the operating voltages (and currents).

Even in a class D amp (if it makes any substantial power) you can measure changes in the output power by simply changing power cords. Its less profound than in other amplifier topologies because class D is so much more efficient. But at higher power levels that sort of thing shows up. In the face of it, probably not a big deal but it is measurable and easily so.

As to whether that’s a waste of money is an entirely different topic; I have friends and relatives that think I’ve wasted a lot of money on my stereo and I do this for a living, ’so take that what you will.’ 🤣