2. amps-preamps
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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
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kriskosiba
33 posts
 
This is a interesting shootout. I am curious, was the Berning using stock tubes in the input? I own a Berning and have changed the stock input tubes to N.O.S. The difference is anything but subtle. Many of the shortcomings addressed in this thread were the very things which were improved upon substantially. For any Berning owners who are interested, I replaced the 12AT7's with Brimar Black Plates NOS 1950's, and the 5965's with GE "5 Star" NOS Platinum 1% pair 1970's. 270 owners, this is a very worth while upgrade. For a more detailed description feel free to e-mail me directly.

Kris
mikelavigne OP
2,199 posts
 
Allan, the real issue to me is how do i as a music lover get the closest to the music. what products will allow me to remove barriers in the musical reproduction chain and allow me as complete musical enjoyment as possible.

my opinion is that an OTL amp with an appropriate speaker is the method that has the best chance of success. so the fact that the Berning can handle less than ideal loads has no value to me as i have already solved that issue with my speakers. why would i go looking for solutions to problems i don't have. when products (amps/speakers) are ideally matched the results can be amazing.

if you have pliers and i have a 10mm socket and we must loosen a 10mm bolt i have the ideal tool but yours will work ok with more varied situations.....why will i want to loosen some other size bolt with my 10mm socket? it is always best when possible to use the tool ideally suited for the job....for the best possible result.

sorry for the lame analogy.....

now, if the question is "what is the most flexible amplifier?" then our methodology would be different.
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
Yes, you are so right but not everyone has that luxury to find the perfect speaker with the perfect impedance match, and for some, the perfect speaker is an electrostatic, or some sort of Planer, in which case normal amps have difficulties with, far less an OTL.
This is what this amp was designed to do, to take whatever can be thrown at it, an still give you what you hear with the perfect impedance speaker.

So using your analogy, as long as all your bolts are 10mm, then all you need is one tool but some people rather larger bolts, or some smaller ones and a more versatile tool is needed.

You're all set, you have found your Nirvana but what about the guys that have those Spendors, Quads or speaker like these, they deserve their Nirvana as well :)
timchen
93 posts
 
dear Mike,

great posting. can you provide what systems and softwares(artists and perforamces) are you using for comparing?
it will provide some info for judements.
thanks

Tim
tireguy
1,964 posts
 
The system of systems is about to be listed again! Since I don't want to screw it up I will let Mike make all of our jaws drop.

Great post btw, very helpful-and the analogy 10mm will probably work for me because I have little nuts! That's a garage joke-sorry :)

~Tim
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