Amplifier ideas with KEF Reference 1
Georgehifi I dont know what you look for you certaintly don't listen to these products.You assume a lot there sunshine, and the Bel-Canto Ref 600M sound nothing like Icepower amps, they are one of the finest Class-D's I "have" ever heard, and they nail the Nuforce Ref 9SE V3 which I've also had for a couple of months. I could almost live with the Belcanto 600M's, saying that I much prefer linear amps. Cheers George |
georgehifi, I completely agree that the Bel Canto REF600M sound nothing like Icepower. By the way, I certainly don't remember seeing any review of the 600M by Clement Perry. audiotroy may be confusing with an older model. The 600M are a Ncore implementation that is customized by Bel Canto. And then, on top of that any of the Bel Canto Black products take it to another level and is much higher end than their e.one series. Plus, with Bel Canto Black, such as the integrated amps, you also get a superb DAC and firmware updates too via Ethernet. Their Ethernet implementation is outstanding and makes for a simple solution for the customer that also sounds incredible. Plus, I find the Bel Canto Black EX integrated to be just slightly warm of neutral, analogue sounding, detailed, very powerful and musically involving. Nothing has driven the ATC SCM40's in my room to their level of current performance as the Bel Canto Black EX integrated. The T+A PA 2500R before that did a pretty good job, as it is a nice piece, but not in the league of the Bel Canto Black EX. Others that have heard both in this system completely agree. |
Insteresting finding George, we did listen to the older Bel Cantos. However we have listened to numerous Hypex, and Ncore amps including a well respected $11k one and so far we havent found a single one yet that we would want to listen to long term, as well as sell. If you actually listen to these amps they are all clean but dont posses any magic in the midrange. As per Everest your findings on the T plus A are suspect when you have to match an integrated amp with a dac and cabling and you dont even know how to run a Dac 8 when all over Audiostreams review as well as Computer Audiophiles column on that Dac have all said that the Dac 8 sounds amazing in Quad Rate Dsd which requires a fast computer running Jriver You run your dac 8 on a Melco which does not allow you to do upconversion or cross-convertsion that, so your findings are somewhat suspect. The Dac 8 sounds good on 16/44 but the real magic is running Quad rate DSD and there are very few files that are actually produced at this sampling level so Jriver processing is required. Everest we would be more than happy to run one of our setups vs one of yours anyday if the Bel Canto Black is better we would sell it the fact that it digitizes analog signals and does not support native DSD is a major turn off. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I wasn't talking about the DAC 8 DSD. I've also heard the T+A PA 2500 R with a different front end. A very nice sounding piece, but still, my definite preference to the bel canto black as it drives difficult speakers better, sounds great and is much quieter in operation. I'm the only one that has apparently heard both. Anyways, I'm not interested in this back and forth any more as it serves no purpose. It's just my opinion versus yours and we'll agree to disagree. It's all good. I'm bowing out now. Cheers |
I still prefer linear amps without the switching frequency noise problems that all Class-D still have, if I needed a integrated linear I like the look of that GamuT Di150 LE I told keoliphant OP to listen to, also the Pass labs Int-250 and I like the well priced John Curl designed Parasound Halo Integrated. I haven’t heard the Black but I have heard the 600 mono’s and they are very good, and shows it in the bench tests as well. 1st graph: As far as driving speakers go, the Belcanto 600M’s will drive harder and stay flatter into low impedance speakers than the Belcanto Black can (graphs). Also the 600’s don’t droop in the lows and highs like the Black does. (same graph) 2nd graph: And not that it means much as they are both Stereophile AP filtered, the 600 also has the cleaner 10khz square wave. 3rd graph: And to cap it off the 600’s have lower distortion <-120db than the Black’s >-110db Belcanto 600m: https://www.stereophile.com/images/916BC600fig1.jpg https://www.stereophile.com/images/916BC600fig2.jpg https://www.stereophile.com/images/916BC600fig3.jpg Belcanto Black: https://www.stereophile.com/images/418BC600fig01.jpg https://www.stereophile.com/images/418BC600fig03.jpg https://www.stereophile.com/images/418BC600fig06.jpg Cheers George |
