Amps, preamps, and home theater

Upgrade the amplifiers . . . . I went from a Denon AVR-87 alone to a using the Denon as a pre to drive a Rotel 985 Mk II for the front three channels (the AVR-87 only had outputs for the three front channels)and it made an amazing difference.

The Denon's pre stage might not be ideal, but it will sound much better with good amplifiers. Also, once you have the power amps, it's a short step to a dedicated pre/pro down the line . . . .

I used to own a Denon AVR 5700. Then bought an amp, using the Denon as a preamp, then bought a pre/pro, and then sold the Denon. And that was only the beginning...

Based on the budget you have and assuming you already have a decent cd player, interconnects and main speaker cabling, I'd recommend the following to reach your goal:

1. Purchase an Odyssey Stratos 2-channel amplifier for $1000. See odysseyaudio.com for reviews and product info.
2. Purchase an Odyssey Temptest pre-amp for $1000.
3. Sell the Denon.
4. Sell any home theater center and surround speakers and speaker cabling you may have.
5. If you don't already own one, find a used M_U_S_I_C_A_L subwoofer for about $1000.
7. Install dedicated electrical circuits and lines for each of your components using 12 gauge or 10 gauge romex wiring: amplifier on one circuit, pre on another, cd and dvd on another, sub on another. If you do the work yourself, it'll cost you about $200 in circuit breakers, romex, etc. Make two of the dedicated lines 20 amps. One 20amp line for the amplifier and one 20amp line for your subwoofer. The other lines should be 15 amps for source and pre.
8. Purchase four of the best 20 amp industrial grade electrical outlets at Home Depot for about $12 each and install them fon your dedicated lines.
9. Forget about DD or DTS. Watch your movies in PCM 2 channel only.
10. Experiment with speaker placement to maximize your soundstage and imaging.

Do the above for about $1000-$2000 out of pocket expenses after selling other items and you'll have a very nice sounding high resolution 2-channel audio system and a very nice sounding high resolution 2-channel system for movies.

You'll forget all about DD and DTS.
You'll forget all about the missing center and surround channels.
And instead you'll have a more beautiful, clean, and simplified setup.
And your sound system for music and movies could well be categorized in the upper 10 or even 5 perctile of all audio systems.

Most importantly it's not how much you spend but on what and where you spend it on.

-IMO

If you want really good 2-channel performance you'll have to get the Denon outta there as both the preamp and amp sections will both significantly limit your system's potential. But the good news is you can keep the Denon to do surround processing and power the center and/or rear channels.

I'd focus on a good stereo amp first, because it'll be important that it's a good match for the Josephs. Something in the 100 watt range from someone like McCormack, Marsh, or Odyssey would be cost effective and trounce the amp section in your Denon. Next, find a good stereo preamp -- again, Marsh, Odyssey, and McCormack all make good preamps, but the McCormack offers a HT passthrough that will let you seamlessly integrate it with your Denon(i.e. no volume matching necessary). Not a must have, but a nice convenience especially if you have others using the system.

Hook your stereo source into the stereo preamp and the stereo preamp to the stereo amp, and you've got a pure high-end system for stereo listening. Hook the front L/R preamp outs from the Denon into an AUX or VIDEO input on the stereo preamp, and voila, you've got an integrated high-end 2-channel system integrated into a HT setup. When you want to listen to high-quality stereo music just choose the proper source(i.e. CD), and when you want movies or surround music just choose the AUX or VIDEO input on the stereo preamp and the Denon once again controls the whole setup. Pretty neat.

You will notice significant improvements by adding a better stereo amp or preamp, but adding both will almost certainly give you that "leap out of your seat" experience you're looking for, and it will allow your Josephs to really open up and show their full potential.

If you're intent on listening to music in surround modes you might consider a 3-channel amp and a new surround processor, but now you're talking a much higher outlay of cash. If you build a really good 2-channel setup as outlined above your desire to listen to surround music will be greatly diminished if not obliterated -- better to leave the surround stuff for the movies, at least for now. Hope this helps and best of luck.

Soix, I like your idea a lot. Let me ask this: does it need to be an amp and preamp, or would a good integrated amp do the trick? If so, is there a good 3-channel integrated amp with the HT passthrough feature you describe. Or even 2 channel, and I could continue to power the center through the Denon (but less ideal).

Stehno, I just can't see how two speakers could provide that you're-in-the-movie feeling. I'm open to having that opinion changed, but I'd really need to have someone else's system convince me before I made a move like that.

Tsrart, great point. What I may do is buy an amp first to use with the Denon, waiting until later to replace the Denon with a preamp.