Apple Lossless vs iTunes Plus

It very well could be, Shadorne. I don't know...I can only tell you what I hear.

And I don't doubt you. Here is a manufacturer's explanation for why differences are sometimes apparent when "in theory" there should be NO difference.

It turns out that most software is sadly lacking and sloppily made (but if you use anything made by Bill Gates then you won't be surprised at all -surely you will have noticed obvious deficiencies/glitches on a regular basis, so it should really come as no surprise that bugs often affect PC audio too!).

IMHO, the biggest pitfall of using a PC system and a DAC is the buggy SOFTWARE problems. This is one of the reasons why I still use software to control hardware to read redbook CD's rather than stream stuff from a hard drive using software. I simply don't trust the poor quality of engineering of software engineers (besides most programmers aren't even real engineers)

So iTunes 6 may work fine until you get the latest "upgrade" and then unwittingly you are suddenly listening to inferior reproduction due to a bug. (so even Steve Jobs can't get it right and you, as a poor user, don;t even know that something has gone wrong until you A/B something very carefully and your ears tell you something is badly wrong)

See also this

Shadorne -

Here's a further, long thread on Head-Fi that supports your contention that the software may be responsible. I have not read the whole thread, but suspected as much myself given the difference in the qualities of the two files I have (EAC vs iTunes older version than current). I confess, this stuff is way over my head - I'm just reporting on what I hear and the little I do think I understand.

I participate in the Modwright forums over on Audiocircle because I use a MW Transporter. The folks in the know over there seem to much prefer using dbPoweramp to rip files.

Hey Naschbac.

My personal results and conclusions came from taking several CDs and ripping selected songs first to Apple Lossless and then taking the same CDs and selected songs and ripping to AIFF. Two native files for each song. I would have preferred there to be no audible differences because Apple Lossless definitely takes up less space than AIFF. Still, AIFF sounded better to me in important ways.

System context:
iTunes/Mac Mini w/SSHD
Ultra Fi Musicstream DAC
Slagle Autoformers for line control
Pair of modified Pass Aleph 3 amps
Sason Ltd/Si Loudspeakers
All cabling: RSAD stuff

So, that's that. I'm okay with whatever you choose to think about me or my conclusions but I'm certain I'm not delusional.

Here's what I take exception to: The dogged attitude that parades as god on a stick to tell others what they can or can't hear. As if the universe should revolve around them and their adeptness for (in this case...) interpreting numbers.

Like it or not, here we are in 2009 with all our 'advanced science' and while it's certainly a useful tool that I personally am grateful for, it's still not the be all end all some of us wished it would be.

If for someone numbers and measurements are the end of the road for them and they don't perceives differences in certain or all areas of playback, that's fine really. But don't play savior and proclaim to all anyone else who doesn't want to ride in the same boat has been Placebo'd. Bad form Hook.

Cheers!

Robert
RSAD

Hey Robert - I've done similar comparisons, but with WAV files comparing to ALAC. I've had really mixed results there. Sometimes there's been a clear difference with WAV sounding consistently better, and others (on other rips of different CD's) I cannot tell any difference. This was in versions past of iTunes which seem to get changed as frequently as jockey shorts. If you thought differences while sticking with iTunes options were important, if you haven't tried it I'd suggest trying EAC rips (or dbPoweramp) and comparing those to iTunes. Again, I've heard that the very latest version of iTunes does address some problems they've been having with ripping.

Hey Marco.

Would really like to explore something different than iTunes. I'm not a brainiac with some of this stuff and I've not had time to fully investigate ripping or playback options. Does Apple's latest OS support EAC or dbPoweramp? While I think the Mac Mini w/ latest version of iTunes is very good the one thing I don't like is it seems I'm kinda locked out by Apple to a lot of ripping and/or playback options. Am I correct here?

Cheers Marco!

Robert
RSAD