2. analog
  3. 1393447894

Are there other Artisan Fidelity TT owners aorund?

So after being an audio hobbyist since my uncle got me going down this demented path some 17 years ago I finally purchased a TT. I had flirted with the idea for a very long time but honestly I've heard a number of TT's at shows and at buddies homes and none of them moved me. Now obviously many many variables are involved. Lets start with, was their TT setup correctly (superlatively).., I don't know. Was the arm/cartridge combination simpatico.., again, I don't know. Was the phono preamp just so-so or great and if it was great was the cartridge loaded correctly.., you get my drift.

So with my digital down through the years easily besting (to my ears) the analog I'd been privy to, I found no reason to spend the money required to involve myself with analog. My former Bidat easily dispatched a SOTA Cosmos Vacuum TT in a head to head listening session. Ditto for my former Dynavox Dynastation.., same with my AMR DP777...etc.

At Axpona last year I listened to the $170K Clearaudio TT along with about $85K worth of Pass Amplification and perhaps $200K worth of JM Labs speaker and cabling only to be more moved by the sound from the Playback Design MPD-5 in the same room.

Finally I realized the only way I would ever find out for myself would be to purchase my OWN TT and make sure it was expertly setup and dialed-in. I had a rare chance to purchase a latest-revision-pristine example of a Graaf GM70 Phono Preamplifier. I have a soft spot for Graaf as Mr. Mariani simply builds the finest gear I have laid ears on. So now I have this phono pre sitting in the box for a few months when I see a SP 10 MK III come up for sale in Agon. So, I threw caution to the wind and contacted Chris at Artisan Fidelity; after some conversation I hung up having just commissioned the building of a SP10 MKIII Next Gen TT.

I was happy for about a month then the fear started to creep in, "what have I done?". What if this thing SUCKS!!!! and my digital system which is very very very good if I do say so myself stomps it!

During the build I researched and read tons of user reviews (I don't really pay attention to so-called pro reviewers) on arms and cartridges. I finally settled (with a lot of talking to Chris and other friends and a lot of late night web searching) on the Kuzma 4 Point and the Ortofon MC Anna.

So, here we are today and I have had my TT for a little over 3 weeks now and I have about 150 - 160 hours on the rig. Early on it sounded ok, you know.., good but nothing special. I liked it but my digital was fully up to the task and in some cases much better :) (now I'm scared)

Ok, so fast forward to 100 hours.., ok, I think I'm starting to understand all this analog hype :) better and better. now we are at 150 hours.., the word SUBLIME comes to mind. The spaciousness, openness and natural continuity of the analog is addictive. The dynamics seem to go on forever along with a naturalness that is very difficult to put into words. I did purchase the Furutech Demag, the Destat II, a scale..., all the toys to go along with it :) Again, I wanted to know for myself and the only way to do that was to take the plunge.

So how does my digital hold up? Well, my well run-in long time AMR DP777 has NOTHING to be ashamed of. It sounds great and I can easily go from the TT to the DP without too much shock (the AMR guys are big vinyl heads and use vinyl as a reference when designing) BUT... when I have two equally well recorded pieces of music (Best of Eva Cassidy comes to mind or Diana Krall Live in Paris 24/96 vs 180g/45) as good as my digital sounds the SP10MK III simply walks away. Again the digital is not trodden underfoot and indeed 20 seconds of the digital and you will be into it fully, but the analog rig beguiles with its effervescent ease and infinite continuity of musical flow.

Ok, so to end this long synopses.., I am now deeply into analog and have been going to local used record stores and burning up my cc on Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds...etc.

The folks at Artisan Fidelity are the real deal and they built me a museum quality +180 pound Porsche Basalt Black TT/piece of art that sounds AMAZING!!!!

I also ordered a Bassocontinuo Apogeo rack for the table which should arrive in about 2 weeks. I am enjoying my foray into the land of analog!!!

THANKS CHRIS!!!!!!!
audiofun
richardkrebs
422 posts
 
Dover
The glue that has broken down on random units is the original glue used by technics. As a precaution, if the glue shows any sign of deterioration it is repaired.
I suspect that there are many MK2 motors out there with this problem and their owners are likely completely unaware. We are talking about 30 plus year old machines, a failure like this is not surprising.

The oil I use has been in part of my MK3 motor, continuously, since 1995. It shows no deterioration.

By unedited I mean, I have not altered their comments. This, I hope, is the industry standard.

Does Artisan Fidelity provide before and after resonance plots for their plinth and bearing drain?

To supply any more detail on my upgrade would risk divulging sensitive IP.
Any genuinely potential client can contact me directly for a more in-depth discussion.

I will be adding a new review and more detail on my site shortly.
downunder
1,329 posts
 
Should this not have its own thread, rather than being hidden inside an Artisan Fidelity TT thread?

I for one am grateful for the additional information on what the modification is/does and the non reversible manner of the upgrade if you do not like the sound after.
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
Downunder; no doubt you are correct. I was trying to make sure people were aware of what was actually involved with the Krebs Mod and it sort of took on a life of its own. People like you are the EXACT reason I wanted this information to be out there :) It is not about maliciousness in any form or matter, it was and is about delivering information to make known the full story to persons thinking of getting this modification.
dover
2,243 posts
 
Richardkrebs,
From your lack of answers to the questions I raised, I can only assume that you agree that the issues are valid.
05-12-14: Richardkrebs
Does Artisan Fidelity provide before and after resonance plots for their plinth and bearing drain?
Artisan Fidelity's website gives a very clear description of the work done.
The turntable is not modified with magic oil and other remedies. Clearly they strip and check the turntable to ensure it is operating correctly, including overhauling the power supply and recalibrating it. Considering the age of the Technics now, it would seem prudent to do this work before considering mods. They also give a description of their plinth design adequate enough for customers to make an informed decision.

I note that your own SP10 power supply had to go back to Bill Thalman for repair. Can I assume from this that you do not have the capability to overhaul and troubleshoot the power supply in NZ ?

I also note from your website that you claim to have dismantled the SP10mk3 motor hundreds of times. In the ET2 thread you stated that the only SP10mk3 in NZ that has had the full mod is your own one. It would appear that you have had your SP10 motor in bits 100's of times ? If so, could you tell us why ?
05-12-14: Richardkrebs
To supply any more detail on my upgrade would risk divulging sensitive IP.
This assumes you have sensitive IP to protect. Most owners of sensitive IP, if it is of any value, patent it.

I recall you recommending the use of Slick 50 teflon oil additive to turntable bearings many years ago. The result was increased bearing wear. Discussion with Roksan designer Touraj Moghaddam, a fully qualified engineer, a graduate of the University of London, Imperial College London & Queen Mary College, confirmed that the use of this oil can accelerate wear because small metal particles can stick in the teflon, resulting in increased bearing wear. This is an example of damage that can be caused using a product designed for a different application when it is untested and misapplied.

In my view the cost of the krebs mod is relatively modest. It is clear that given the well known structural issues that Richardkrebs outlines above, that rather than applying stone age remedies by adding oil gunk and glue, one would be better off eliminating the motor chassis or building a new one that eliminates the structural weaknesses rather than bandaids them.

If we examine the structure of the Pioneer P3, Kenwood L07D and look at the Kaneda and Mitch Cotter solutions, is it very easy to design a more rigid motor & platter mounting.

Furthermore a review of the error correction logic and parameters should be part of the target for improvement as one of the primary goals of the TT was instant start up and stop times for DJ's. This is not normally a requirement for domestic audio systems. There is much information on this on the web.

There is much discussion on this forum about replacing electrolytic caps on old DD turntables. The reality is that electrolytics sitting on the shelf dry up and resistors drift. My own experience with recalibrating power supplies is that even mill spec metal film resistors can drift after only 10 years in the field. So a proper restoration of the SP10 should include a complete rebuild and calibration of the TT motor control boards and power supply, not just cap replacements.
richardkrebs
422 posts
 
Dover
Slick 50? Never. I use Motul as you well know.
Surely others are growing tired of this hijacking of Audiofun's thread, but I will add one point.
My upgrade works on the motor itself and its immediate surrounds.
No plinth or controller / PS in the world , no matter how brilliantly designed and built, can correct problems that are first caused there.
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