Beethoven Symphonies - best perf + sonics on CD

Loydelee, I like the Paavo Jarvi cycle but I am biased because I saw him for ten seasons with our orchestra in Cincinnati. Nevertheless, his interpretations make sense, for example the opening four note motive of the 5th is taken with enthusiasm versus the sometimes slower approach. Dynamics especially stand out in this cycle as being well thought out in advance. The small size of the Bremen orchestra allows one to hear its quality players more closely. The recordings are very good to excellent. The room sounds open and tends to recede towards the tympani.
OK, so how does this compare with Karajan or Furtwängler? It has been some time since I've heard the Karajan but my instincts tell me that the Jarvi is less idiosyncratic and more focused on driving home the point so to speak. I certainly haven't heard enough Furtwängler recordings but he's such a towering iconic figure that I see him in some way as being a linked to Brahms and Beethoven themselves. The Furtwängler that I own is the d'Orfeo box set of the Berlin at the Salzburg Festival which is wonderful. However, I cannot make a fair comparison between the two at this point.
The only symphony which I found questionable to my liking in the Jarvi cycle would be the 9th. It isn't bad, it's just out of the ordinary. I once owned the Harnoncourt box set when it first came out in the 90's and found it beautiful in some ways but perceived the historical brass being combined with all modern instruments to sound out of place. There were also areas of the Harnoncourt that sounded a little 'run through'. If I were to recommend a modern recording of the Beethoven cycle, it would be the one from Paavo Jarvi.
Lastly, the now defunct Andante label issued some wonderful remasteres of Beethoven. The one that comes to mind is the LSO Salzburg set with Karl Böhm conducting the Beethoven 7th live.

Thanks!! Maybe when i get around to it...i will give Jarvi a try. Is there a particular Jarvi recording/mastering you recommend? (the equivalent of the '63 von Karan)?

To any and everyone:

What makes one recording great, and another, playing the same music, by the same orchestra and conductor, just run of the mill or even bad?

Think of HvK, the berliners and Beethoven's symphonies. Same conductor, same orchestra, but some are considered among the best ever, and some not so good.

This is true of throughout the classical world. Is it the conductor or the recording process that makes a classic? I realize both have to be at least good, but which is more important? How much 'wiggle room' does a conductor really have? I get the tempo thingy. But other than that?

I was thinking of Kleiber and Beethoven's 5&7. Is it a great performance or actually, just a great recording?

Thanks

Cheers

For me tempo and orchestration are major factors in performances. I especially favor brisk tempos with a good beat, which I think more what Beethoven had in mind. I also like reduced orchestration where the inner instrumental detail becomes audible. For me both are sorely lacking in a lot of highly esteemed performances which seek grandiosity and gravity. I much prefer a sense of 'joy'. This is why I also prefer Kleibers style with the 5th for example. It is a great performance! Recording is OK, but I rarely pay any attention to the recording quality when it plays. It could sound as bad as Richter's Sofia performance of Mussorgsky's Pictures. Absolutely terrible recording of a live performance at which all of the audience members seemed to have colds. But the performance is transcendant and must be heard if you like this piece. It sets a standard against which others pale.

Fine recordings are just that, but without fine performances fitting my preferences they are not worth much to me. But we all hear differently.

Keep in mind that it's more difficult to play an instrument slow and soft than loud and fast. The job of an orchestra is to play as an ensemble and not as a group of soloists. In most respects, I see ensemble playing as being the responsibility of the conductor but one can only do so much with what they have to work with. Classical musicians must have a knowledge of performance practice and a technique which will facilitate the objectives of a conductor and/or composer. This is why some conservatories pay more attention to ensemble playing than coaching along solo careers. The pedagogy of these two disciplines are significantly different from one another.
Contrary to popular belief, musicians in the best orchestras will always make mistakes however they are often covered over or they're faint to the ear. Primarily what makes a good performance is difficult to pin down exactly but I've often found that the experienced and competitive groups will take on a sense of danger whenever they're motivated by artistic inspiration. An inspired Berlin Philharmonic playing Beethoven under the baton of a fiery Furtwängler will certainly result in memorable evening. This is why I prefer live performances or live recordings and why I tend to overlook errors. It also serves an orchestra well to have a loyal and intelligent audience.