Berning ZH270 vs 845 SET amp

Hi Mike,

Since you are looking for a consensus, I will give you my .02 worth. I agree with Slowhand (hi Tom). As well as being fast, they deliver VERY nice top to bottom sound. They will however, let you know when you have a cable or other system link that does not pull its weight or is not suited to your system. They are brutally honest. When you get it right, the ZH270 will reward you big time, as long as you aren't looking for the typical soft tube sound.

Bass is tight and dynamic. Very untube like. Top end is smooth and extended in my system. Mids just keep making me smile. Energy is conveyed much like a live, unamplified performance would give the listener. I have had eight different amps (MBL 9011's, Krell, Sim Audio,Lamm, Pass etc)in my current system and Berning ZH270's are the second best amps I have heard here. The best? The new Quadrature Z mono blocks that I commissioned Dave to build for me. It took two years for delivery but holy s***, these babies make my MBL's sing!
Steve

So, what if I am going to use the Berning like an integrated, no preamp? With my speakers a little tightning of the bass would be fine, I just don't want to loose the mid and highs that one gets with tubes. Yes I may lean towards the warm, romantic sound, but that does not mean that I want it overly lust, slow,sloppy, bloated etc.
Thanks
Mike

Hi mike,
I think the big question you need to ask yourself is "what is the tube sound I like, or want?" This meaning there are pretty much two different tube camps. One camp is what I would call traditional tube sound(please understand I am not saying one is right, or wrong. Strictly a matter of taste) traditionalists being your s.e.t. lovers. This typically renders a very romantic sound some will also say warm, tonally rich, full bodied, and emotional. Emphasis is more prominent in the midrange, with the frequency extremes usually lacking a little in ultimate detail, and accuracy. Please understand this is a generalization of products typically falling in the traditionalist category. There are I'm sure exceptions.
You then have what I would call the non traditionalist camp. This is to say that they prefer the transparency, speed, and immediacy that tubes can provide but also are looking for a more linear sound. What gets confused between these two camps are what "their" definitions of audio adjectives mean. Traditionalist will find the Berning lacking emotion, tonal richness, some what aggressive and so on. Non traditionalist will say the contrary. who's right? everybody. Because what the Berning sounds like, or doesn't sound like, in relation to their preferences is very different. I can tell you I fall in the non traditionalist, and have owned a Berning for over 7 years. I have heard many, many amps and none do for me what the 270 does. It IS brutally honest. One of your concerns is that the 270 may be lifeless, or lacking emotion. For me that is the exact opposite of how I interpret the Berning. But my definitions of what it means I am sure is very different from a traditionalist view point is. So depending on where you fall in you preferences ultimately determines if the Berning is you cup of tea. As for running it like an integrated, I have run it this way for years. I have also run it with a preamp. this really depends on quality of upstream components if you have a very good source and an ok preamp you might then run it without the pre. As people have said almost unanimously, it is BRUTALLY honest and if upstream is not on par, you will know it. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Kris

OK, time for a clarification. I said "a bit" flat. Not a lot. These are minor points and I think for most would be overweighed by the characteristics of the rest of the system. I have changed pre-amps, conditioners and cables since I had the Berning. If you are buying used, you can almost certainly re-sell a ZH-270 here for what you paid for it, unless you get into a bidding war. So give it a try if you think that the basic sonic signature of your system does not require tilting towards the fuller side.

I've never had an 845-based SET, but I have had a Wavac 1610, apparently not their most popular amp ever, but it fits the bill for a 'high-powered SET'. I am well aware, though that 845's sound different than 300b's, etc., so not sure how valid the generalization from my experience to other SET's is. Anyhow, I kept my Berning and sold the Wavac. I just could not tolerate the bass from the Wavac, it was too loose, bloated, boomy. Also the highs seemed to be way too rolled off, maybe not the right word but close.