best budget integrated amp for rock n roll music?

I have heard the ARC Complete with your speakers in a dealer showroom and it was a synergistic match. If you can't do a home audition, this may be a safer option.
I also have recently purchased the ARC Complete and like it.
However, if you are on a budget and you can arrange a home trial, I would suggest trying an NAD integ amp.
I have an old NAD receiver, and while the ARC is definitely better, if I carefully adjust the tone controls on the NAD I can come closer in sound than the price difference may indicate.

Mr. Lyon,

Ok...Here we go ;-(

First, could you please explain to me why it is ok for you to promote your Neuance Isolation products in these forums, but not ok for me to do the same for a product I represent? Just as you feel that your product is the best around, I feel the same about the products I represent (see below for a more in depth discussion of this). On a side note, my dad and I auditioned your platforms at CES2001 and were VERY impressed, as they easily bested other similar products that we auditioned.

Second, I should have qualified myself as a dealer for said product, it was not intentional as I assumed that folks reading would be able to click on my user name and realize I was a commercial user. I apologize and will directly state my dealership status in the future.

Third, the Creek was right up there with the Mistral as far as sound quality is concerned, but we couldn't pick up both lines and in the end the Mistral had more appealing cosmetics to us. So there, I said something good about a product I don't sell ;-)

Ok, those things being said...Rant mode on:

A quote from the thread you mentioned from the Audiogon staff, "In summary, Audiogon DOES require users with financial interests in audio to register as a "Commercial User", and this status is displayed when a forum participant's Username is clicked. However, it is worth keeping in mind that Audiogon is indeed a marketplace, and that EVERY user's advice could be suspect. While we do try to "label" some users as commercial in nature, let us not forget that virtually everyone here will spend money or collect money for audio products - sooner, or later, or earlier"

Father & Son Audio is registered as a commercial user and of course we have something to gain if someone were to purchase an LFD Mistral integrated. However, this is the issue that you are missing...You CANNOT make the assumption that just because a dealer of a given product is touting it that they are evil and cannot be trusted. Did you ever contemplate the fact that the dealer may be stating an opinion that he/she truly believes in?

My claim concerning the LFD Mistral, which was judged inaccurate because of my dealer status in your infinite audio wisdom, is just an OPINION. How is your statement that my OPINION was "outlandish, ridiculous tripe as your unrealistic claim" any different than my claim concerning the LFD Mistral.

Furthermore, what is your basis for stating that my claims are "unrealistic" when we are in fact dealing with a purely SUBJECTIVE topic? IMHO it is the best integrated under $5,000. But that is my OPINION, if you don't agree, then that is fine. The statement is simply an OPINION, nothing more, nothing less. The poster asked for OPINIONS and that is what I gave. Just because I am a dealer for said product, it does not mean that Kbinner has to purchase that specific piece. If he is like most of us, he will obtain a short list, listen to all of them, and purchase the one he likes the most, in his OPINION.

Your concerns are valid, but cannot be applied in such a blanket fashion to all dealers. Yes, some dealers pick up certain lines not because they sound the best to the dealer and hence may not be the best for the customer, but instead because said product has the highest markup. Every product that we sell is in our humble OPINION (i.e., SUBJECTIVE) the best in it's class. I am trying not to turn this into an advertisement, but I feel like my integrity was directly attacked in your post.

...Rant mode off.

I apologize if this seems like rambling and somewhat emotional (it is), but I feel I had to defend my business and myself.

If you wish to discuss this further, please send me an email, as I don't want to clog up this thread with any off-topic discussion.

Thanks for reading and best regards.

...Mike - Father & Son Audio

ummm...mistral=best integrated under $5k?!

granted you have registered as a "commercial user" (and i applaud you for that small concession), but how many of us bother to check each and every user status for all of those who post in the forums? i know i don't unless something like this is brought to my attention..then again, i don't buy jack based on someone else's opinon. howevwer,the sad fact is that there ARE people who are easily swayed by what they read on-line.

your mistral flag waving hardly seems like an objective endorsement to me. if there's one thing i've learned though my own audition of various components, it's that you (usually) get what you pay for. there are bargains out there but i HIGHLY doubt a $1500 integrated is gonna stack up to many $5k pieces, much less ALL $5k pieces. not to mention that for that $5k, one could find some very good separates that would easily outperform most integrateds.

try to keep your self-serving pep rallies to a dull roar. ugh.

Dear FS,
I likewise am wholey impressed with the LFD Mistral integrated as well as the rest of their range.I find them easily to be amoungst the most musically adept electronics in their respective price ranges. They are possessing of rhythmic, dynamic and expressive qualities rarely found in components of their genre or pricepoints.As much as I appreciate the little Creeks, the Mistral to my tastes,which favors timing and emotional connection, is easily the more accomplished performer.In my opinion, the LFD is one of the best kept "secrets" in the current audio market.
Anyways,what I most objected to was the absence of qualification and expansion of your statement.Had you just added the reasons for your opinion, the recommendation would be of sharing your experiences with an excellent candidate for consideration rather than commercialism.
As industry members,I feel we have an extra responsibilty in the manner in which we conduct ourselves here.I apologise that my own behavior could have been better handled as,in retrospect,my response was unnecessarily strident.
Regards,
Ken
btw- if you search the archives here and at the other fora where I entertain myself(AA vinyl,in particular), you'll find that I regularly recommend the products of my competition specifically to avoid mention of my own.

S2k_dude,

You just don't get it do you. IMHO, the Mistral is the best. This is only my OPINION. Absolutely NOTHING in this industry is OBJECTIVE (except for actual electrical measurements, which themselves can sometimes be suspect). If you disagree, then that is fine. I must ask you this: Have you heard the Mistral and if so, what other integrated pieces did you compare it to? If you have not heard it, then you have ZERO basis for your statement, "i HIGHLY doubt a $1500 integrated is gonna stack up to many $5k pieces". Also, the poster was asking about integrated amps only, NOT separates. So your statement that "one could find some very good separates that would easily outperform most integrateds" may be true, but has no relevance in this thread.

Look, all I was doing was bringing up an integrated that had yet to be mentioned that the poster should consider. That is it. You want others that I like, fine: Creek, Plinius, Rowland, and Chord. But in the price range the poster was asking about, the Mistral is the one I recommend.

Also, I take great exception to your statement, "the sad fact is that there ARE people who are easily swayed by what they read on-line". You insult the general "audiophile" population (me included) when you make statements like that. EVERY customer I have EVER dealt with has been very careful when throwing around the kind of money that this hobby can sometimes require. They listen, contemplate, listen again, take a break from auditioning for an extended period of time, listen to competing products I recommend, listen to those I represent again, ad infinitum, then they make a decision. Why do you think there is so much traffic to audio forums like this and Audioasylum? Because these "easily swayed" people as you call them are in the middle of extensive research concerning the products they are interested in.

Finally, LIGHTEN UP. As important as listening to great music on great equipment is to us, there are MUCH more important things in this life.

...Mike - Father & Son Audio