Best new loudspeaker

hi ralph:

aha, now i see your point. you have defined a criterion as to what best is, and you are applying that criterion to the evaluation of components and stereo systems.

i understand your perspective, but it is an arbitrary one. you use the word "best" and "worst", as it follows from your premise of accuracy, and "the rules of hearing".

your premise is arbitrary, although sensible.

i still say that there is no "best" or worst", in the absolute sense. i will accept your conclusions based upon your premise, but at the same time, i reject it because, i consider this hobby to be subjective and the basis for judging stereo systems to be a simple, "i like it" or "i don't like it". "best" or "worst", which follows logically from your premise is irrelevant. don't confuse facts with value. you are making a virtue of necessity.

by the way, i sent you an e mail. did you receive it ?

i see no point in debating with you. this is a philosophical argument. one could have a similar discussion with respect to food, literature, art and movies.

as i said in the e mail, it would be easier to discuss this in person with you. perhaps we may meet at ces.

"one could have a similar discussion with respect to food, literature, art and movies."

In my opinion this comment would be applicable if we were discussing music, which we are not. We are discussing the replication of music. That replication is either faithful in the areas that matter, or not.

Now as to which areas matter and how much - well, that would be a topic rich with diversity of opinion.

Duke

hi duke:

you can discuss accurate vs inaccurate replication of recordings. one can measure and state facts.

the problem occurs when a judgment is rendered.

here is an example:

stereo system a is accurate--fact
stereo system b is inaccurate--fact

so far, there would be no disagreement if the facts were established properly.

to say stereo system a is better than stereo system b is illogical and only an opinion.

stereo system a is accurate--fact
stereo system b is inaccurate--fact

so far, there would be no disagreement if the facts were established properly.

to say stereo system a is better than stereo system b is illogical and only an opinion.

Mrt, I did not get your email. BTW your conclusion above is not logical. System A in the example above is logically the better. This is because 'accurate' is deemed by the world at large (through agreement) to be better than 'inaccurate'.

Many things exist out of agreement. Money is a good example- the material of a $100 bill are worth marginally more than a piece of paper the same size; we give it the value out of agreement. Stop signs have their value out of agreement as well.

So logic dictates: if accurate is better than inaccurate, and system A is accurate and system B is not, then A is better than B. You may attach whatever personal meaning and value you wish to the contrary, but usually its best not to make those feelings public.

That replication is either faithful in the areas that matter, or not. Now as to which areas matter and how much - well, that would be a topic rich with diversity of opinion.

Agreed - this type discussion might be worthwhile but it requires a certain minimum of understanding. Clearly, different aspects are more important to some people than others. For this very reason audio engineers can prefer cone speakers whilst audiophiles can prefer Quad 57's. Neither is wrong in their views when they both say "my speaker sounds better to me"...they value differently what is important.

For some, accurate dynamics, realistic loudness levels and minimizing the affects of room interaction are much less important than the room acoustic ambience and reverberant low intensity sound field with a broad, deep soundstage.

The Sonic Circle is an attempt to address this problem intelligently rather than purile arguments.

However, I suspect the Sonic Circle is incomplete as I struggle to see where Panels/Ribbons/Electrostats fit in...anyone have some ideas....to me they have that rare quality in that they blend features from several dimensions of the Sonic Circle, they are certainly precise in some aspects of the sound but they have an emotional flare too in terms of ambience...?