Can I expect to pay full retail for a new system?

"It reminds me of the time an audio store in So. NH tried very, very hard to sell me a set of $10,000 speaker cables.......for speakers I had paid $2500 for, & an amp I'd paid $1000 for. Apparently, every cable they had for less than $10,000 just wasn't quite good enough...."

Nah, just not quite expensive enough (AKA high-commission enough), same as your amp and speakers. The lousy salesman typically prefers 0% of an impossible dream to 10% of reality...

I think it's important to know where you are bargaining from. I am very close to a dealer who just had this happen:
Customer (let's just say not American, but from one of those parts of the world that does know how to bargain!)asks for dealer's best price. Well discounted price was ~$15K for multi-room + home theater etc. Now the dealer had already done a site survey and had spent many many hours w/ this fellow. Buyers stated budget was around $15K, so requested price was met with well discounted equipment after much time invested. Buyer says, OK, I'll do it - for $12K. After much wrangling dealer comes close to 12K, and buyer won't budge. Since dealer would lose money at this point for dropping his pants for this jerk, dealer lets him walk. Dealer points out that
1) If I started at $18K (still below retail)and we met at $15K, you would have been perfectly happy! and
2) Dealer did not assume beginning the negotiation that it was EXPECTED that he was SUPPOSED to try to be ripping the buyer off!

So, the moral is, if your dealer is a good guy and the stuff is already discounted a bit, be fair. But I guess if your main point is to feel like you are taking advantage of someone, an honest, hardworking B+M that truly wants to get you the best bang for your buck is not the place to shop.

Audio dealers are desparate to make a sale, any sale. Walk away by saying, "gee all I have right now is..." Leave the guy your phone #, you'll get a call in one week/less. "Oh I've gota deal for you on that amp you wanted"
If the amp/speakers are say 2K, bid $1500. He'll end up meeting you half way. Trust me they want your money.
Now if its a product I know i wany and will keep for yrs and yrs, like a amp and speaker i have plans for, I'll pay asking price, abit below.

Steve - that's too bad about your experience. The Tall One has a dry sense of humor, but I don't think it's so dry that you wouldn't be able to tell humor from serious ragging on your equipment. I've had limited expereince with the 2 stores in Southern NH, nothing bad. Your experience is ludicrous to the point of being very funny. It was worth the experince just for the story you can tell now!!
The worst store IMHO is the snooty store in Frmaingham. They have some good stuff (Maggie, Ayre,etc), and some very good policies, but their attitude stinks - high pressure, just move a lot of very expensive boxes, and if the customer questions the owner's judgement, just yell louder.

are you talking about natural sound, my experiences have been much different