2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Stormen and Halcro

I will give what I think is possible.

The guitar amp guys swear by vintage tube guitar amps. After hearing the vintage stereo tube amp I can understand why. Tones. Guitar guys talk about the tone. I can understand that now! The vintage tube (stereo) amp excels at it. My SS is not even in the league. You can tell so many different instruements apart. I do not mean to say your SS amps are not good just mine was not even close to the vintage tube amp.

I have been driven nuts as to why myself. I now have 5 vintage amps in total one here (broken) and 4 coming and maybe more.

You guys both read Steen's findings. No plastic was huge to him. I suspect he wondered why the vintage stuff sounded better.

The guitar guys say no plastic in the vintage transformer? point to point wiring. (I am assuming your amps have circuit boards) The vintage amp uses foil caps. No doubt not even close to Duelund quality but the Duelund's really only blew away my tweeter caps and it is close in the mid range. They both have similiar tones. Which makes me think (as Steen said) "caps should be foil or some variation of".

When I think about my Linn system which was a pretty standard system. (near there top a few year ago) I used all Linn I.C's Linn sources Linn pre Linn amp Linn speaker wire (tri-wire) and Linn speakers and yet the vintage stuff blew it away! Like I said when I heard the Linn all I could think was attention Walmart shoppers! Night and day. That is where the losing my mind over vintage. Why? is what was bugging me.

Look at my Linn system
pre-amp loaded with circuit boards along with the amp. The speaker crossover had cheap electrolytic caps. Cheap plastic caps and on a circuit board again. I heard tons of high freq hash all the time. It was so bad on the CD player I used to laugh at it. I thought it was a piece of junk! When that same CD player is hooked up to all foil amp. all foil (non circuit board) speaker crossover it was a thing of beauty. I never would have believed it could even sound so good.

I think it is like a chain. When I put the Mundorf in the Midrange even in a all foil vintage amp the Duelund's did not shine the same. When I put in (my SS) the Duelund's do not shine the same. All foil all the way and WOW! Holy mother of crap that is amazing! Hence all my gear up for sale.

There is even only one concern I have is why does my CD player sound around the same as the LP12 on vintage? That is my one last question. Might not even own a turntable soon.

I will be going to Steen's site again to look for more clues.
halcro's avatar
halcro
2,664 posts
 
Volleyguy, you can do much better than a LP12....especially if it sounds like your CD player.
Even my 30 year old Rega 3 would demolish any CD player!
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Halcro on my Linn SS the Lp12 blows away the Cd player. My Lp12 has the cirkus bearing, Lingo and Ekos Mk II tonearm. That is part of what I am saying my CD player sounded like garbage until I got the vintage tube amp.
halcro's avatar
halcro
2,664 posts
 
Well now I'm completely confused? Are you saying that the Linn is great with transistors but with tubes it's only the CD player that benefits?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Halcro I am somewhat confused myself. The tubes make the CD player sound like it never has before. (always wayyyyy below the level of the LP12) On the other side the improvement was not as stark with the Lp12 hooked up to tubes. This could be as little as a poor vintage phono stage. If you would have asked me before this I just assumed vinyl was the only way to go. Almost got rid of the CD player as it was getting so little use. Mostly for my wife really as I never listened to it. I am to the point of wondering if I will keep the Lp12. That's why I say I was confused as well. SS causes an ever increasing investment in the LP12 and I was somewhat frustrated with being somewhat stuck in the past. (vinyl I mean) Halcro I think everyone would agree if you can get digital as good as vinyl sound than vinyl is a big question mark. CD's do not wear out like lp's etc. I know a lot of it has to do with even and odd harmonic distortion. In my opinion digital with (my SS) just gives wayyyy too much odd harmonic distortion.

Which takes me back to Steen's camp. A cheap (my CD player was $3 or $4k new) but only worth $600 (or so) now coupled with a vintage tube amp (again for chump change) with vintage speakers and Duelund crossover blows away a my many, many times more expensive vinyl SS system. Steen says 50% speakers 50% of that crossover and 50% in the rest of the system.

My x-101-d is I think the same as the 500c. Stereophile write this review and I know they love everything except the Fisher does not advertise. They do say the phono stage not all that great.

http://www.stereophile.com/historical/605fisher/
More to discover