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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Volleyguy and Irish65:

I wanted to thank you both for your responses. I am going to place my order for a pair of the new CAST resistors today. Duelund is going to make them a little shorter and wider than the standard offering so that they'll fit better in my speakers.

And I must add to this thread that over the weekend I exchanged several emails with Frederik Caroe, owner and founder of Duelund Coherent Audio. He was a huge help! When discussing the dimensions of his CAST copper capacitors he offered to custom make them if necessary to make them fit in my speakers. I didn't follow up on that discussion because I suspected they would still be too big for my application (too bad!!!!) so that's why I opted for the VSFs.

But the point I want to make is that working with Duelund Coherent Audio has been great. I haven't even heard Frederik's products but I am already a big fan of his company and give my highest recommendation to anyone considering his products.

Also, regarding the potential for the VSFs to sound flatter compared to the Mundorf S/G/O, I asked Frederik about that and I trust that he won't mind me posting his reply to me on the subject:

"It's not a question of lack of depth, the VSF simply doesn't sound shut in like a metalized cap does. The shut in effect is often mistaken for depth."

That response has me very intrigued and anxious to experience the new sound that my system is going to provide. I'll update this thread accordingly, but it'll take a couple of months for everything to arrive and get broken in.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Reynolds853

While doing your speaker have you thought about the internal wiring? Not sure what you are now?

I must agree Duelund/Frederik do seem to want to keep a group of products whose sound quality improvement is very real. The only Duelund product I have tried that was not excellent was the round copper wire and they no longer sell it.

There is no shame in VSF's so not to worry. I had two CAST and two VSF's in the tweeter circuit and prefered of all combinations the CAST followed by the VSF. (two CAST's were very good as well)

Reynolds I expect your going to say a tonal improvement.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ampohm test

I had wondered if pairing an Ampohm with a Jensen Copper Paper tube would correct some of the Ampohm's weakness.

The Jensen is bass strong and dynamic unlike the Ampohm. Ampohm has the "see through" but flat sound. (to me almost exactly like vintage Vishay ERO foil in mylar)

Tony talks about cooking a little of this a little of that.

Ampohm caps rated even higher by Tony than Mundorf S/G/O are a much cheaper than Mundorf and a fraction of Duelund VSF or CAST.

So does it work? Still testing but it is closer than you would think for $100 of caps vs. $400. Duelund costs do not drop (I expect due to being hand made) when in smaller values.

A couple more days and I want to hear Jensen vs. Duelund VSF.

The cap that does not seem to get much talk the Jensen Copper Paper Tube. Jimmy had thought it and the CAST the best of the bunch with VCaps, S/G/O and old Jensens.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
This thread started off by wondering why did a vintage tube amp with all foil caps and vintage speakers with all foil caps sound so alive compared to modern hi-fi.

Not sure if anyone has noticed but in Tony's top caps the top three are all foil caps CAST, VSF and Ampohm. When he tests the Jensen I will bet that the top 4 will be foil.

Since that time Frederik had said Steen used vintage caps until he used his own. In testing the Ampohm caps I can not tell the difference from vintage Vishay ERO caps. I would rate the vintage Vishay around 12 if Ampohm is 12.5. In all the caps that Tony has too choose from his 3rd best (Ampohm) sounds exactly like 50+ year old vintage! In fact the tube store sells these largely to guitar guys looking for the vintage tone and Ampohm is VERY good at vintage.

http://thetubestore.com/

When I started doing my speaker people told me "all" new caps would be better. I found only Duelund to be better in the midrange. (again foil)

In Jimmy's tests of the most modern caps #1 and #2 were foil caps. (CAST, Jensen Copper Paper tube)

Reynolds you might find yourself going the way that many of us have. In my mind CAST and VSF do not sound that different. You are paying your $$$ for lower noise. In fact right from vintage to Ampohm to VSF and CAST the biggest difference is resonance and noise and how much you can live with either.
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Volleyguy,

Wow! Thank you for your responses. I had kept the original internal wiring and only changed the capacitor and resistor. I had been reluctant to change the inductor or internal wiring, but do you have some wire in mind?

Also, I hate to admit it, but I had not thought about the noise. I’ve been so focused on tone. But no matter how much I’d rather have the CAST capacitors, I don’t have room in my Silverline SR17.5 speakers.

But I did order a pair of CAST resistors today. I think they are normally about 12.5cm long, but to fit into my limited space, Frederik is going to make them 10cm x 0.8cm.

PartsConnexion is having a 15% off sale, but still the total for the two caps and two resistors was around $400. I hope that's enough $$$ for caps that are not too noisy! I'm hoping too that my (although ballsy) monitor speakers won't vibrate the caps enough to make resonance become an issue. I sure know the S/G/O seems quiet to me and if the VSFs are that quiet, then I'll be a happy camper.

And thanks again for your help!
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