2. analog
  3. 153132-541

Cartridge loading

Presently I am using a ZU/Denon DL103 mc cartridge with ZU Audio's highest tolerances.  I had this cartridge mounted on my VPI Prime and after going through all the various loading combinations, I settled on 200 ohms.  I was always satisfied with my choice of setting.  I no longer have the Prime and now use the Technics SL1200G turntable.  After having the same cartridge mounted and aligned by the dealer, I inserted it into my system and enjoyed the sound immensely, never touching the 200 ohm setting.

Yesterday I was listening to vinyl most of the day and for some reason I found the sound to be better than ever, mostly in the treble area.  The highs had shimmer when needed and I had played the same records many times before on the Prime and they never sounded as good as they did yesterday.  Just for the heck of it, I checked the cartridge loading and found it was now set at 1000 ohms.  As I said, when I put the Technics into the system, I never bothered changing the loading which was at 200 ohms as it was the same cartridge, just a different turntable.

I believe I know what happened, when I last used the tone controls on my McIntosh preamp, (you have to shuffle through a menu) I must have inadvertently put the cartridge loading at 1000 ohms.  It truly sounds fantastic, better than I ever thought possible.  The Bass is still very deep and taut, midrange is the same but the treble, oh my, so much better.  Now the million dollar question is why should it now sound better at 1000 ohms, when it sounded great before at 200 ohms?  Can the tonearm on the Technics have an effect on cartridge loading?  I always thought it was all dependent on the preamp, amp and speakers.  What am I missing here?  I am very curious to know.  The specs for my cartridge say greater than 50 ohms for loading.

Thanks
128x128stereo5
intactaudio
300 posts
 
Hey Lew.

It appears as if this guy has a good take on what is going on with the 0Ω

http://phonoclone.com/diy-pho4.html

I quickly simmed the circuit and it appears as if the input Z is frequency dependent and around 0.001Ω @ 10hz and increases by a factor of 10 for every decade which puts it at 1Ω @ 10khz and 10Ω @ 100khz.  

how you translate this into an easy to understand input impedance for the masses is not an easy task.  Is 0Ω 100% accurate?  no... but for the majority of the audio band it is close. Just try to explain a frequency dependent variable to a group used to values being ruler flat form 20-20K.

In the end I do not think there is anything disingenuous with the claims but once taken out of the context of being an audio generalization for the masses it does become problematic.
 

dave
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,015 posts
 
@lewm  ;: I re-read your post and your hypotesis is only that and I doubt some one can " jump " here to confirm your hypotesis that can " impede it " .
"""  wonder whether the load resistor might affect the magnitude of that phenomenon. """

I can see that you like to make all more " complicated " when the issue posted by atmasphere was diferent to what you posted and I can't understand why not we can go step by step: why add more " phenomenos " to the main issue. I wonder why?

Anyway, you are free to post what ever you want. 

R.
lewm
12,875 posts
 
Raul, I have no idea what you are trying to say.  Please clarify. Thanks.
From the one sentence I think I do understand, how can one subtract the effect of the load resistance when the entire question revolves around the value of the load resistance?  Ralph says that low value load Rs tend to impede the cartridge's ability to trace HF.  My idea, for good or ill, is an attempt to explain how that might be the case, but I am saying that the load resistor, for an LOMC, is in parallel with the coil resistance, which is already usually less than 20 ohms.  So the parallel sum of the value of the coil resistance plus the load resistor will always be less than 20 ohms.  In other words, the load resistor does not make a big difference and maybe therefore should not have much effect on the magnitude of any "back EMF" generated at the coil/magnet interface.  This would lead me to disagree with Ralph, but the whole issue is a bit over my head to begin with, and I seek input from others who know more than I do.  There's another way of looking at it, too.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,015 posts
 
Dear @lewm  :  I understand what you move to post about and I know you that almost always you try to give and explanation/your explanation and this is fine.

Now, I posted that I know that exist no one that can " jump " with true evidence of that " limit trace ability on HF " and I know because in that older thread where I participated where the kind of gentlemans that have a really high technical knowledge levels and rigth there one of them proved to atmasphere that what he said about was and is: false and atmasphere just left with out answer or evidence on the issue, as a fact he stay " dead silence ".

Just like here when I asked to him a precise question to rpove what he is spreading any where for many years and he do that even that was proved to him that is: false.

I that thread no other persons " jump " to shows evidence to confirm that that assumption was not false.

My technical level is very low and that's why I still ask to him for evidence on that " limit trace.."  that like intactaudio I know just does not happens.

I know that you agree that can't happens and that's why you are looking for that " jumping person "  that you posted.

Of course that like you I will love that that person appearead here to tell us that we are wrong and that that " limit trace..." exist and he shows the evidence.

But due to whom is atmasphere and his cotinuos spreading on that issue and with all respect he has the responsability to show that true/live evidence or accept is a misunderstood from his part. He can do the last mantaining his " dead silence " attitude that is a confirmation of no evidence.

The issue/problem is that " limit trace..." I hope he can come back with the evidence where ( I hope ) we can duplicate in our system and be aware about.

R.
lewm
12,875 posts
 
Hey Dave (Intactaudio), .001 ohms is still not zero ohms.  I'm just sayin'...But I'm also impressed.  That unit can do the purest "current gain" of any I know about so far.
And, since Chakster can move at light speed, rules fall apart.

Raul, I share your interest in this subject.  But I also know that Intactaudio is one of the smartest guys in the business, even including the persons you have in mind, and I know that he is still thinking on this subject of the effect of load on the motion of the stylus.  I see it as a very complex question, but maybe that is because I myself am so lacking in understanding.  However, as I understand you, your position is that it doesn't happen, because you can't hear it (and because you have the testimony of some other knowledgeable persons who also deny the phenomenon exists).  Is that a fair summation of your position?
More to discover