CJ vs. BAT vs. THOR preamps, who's best?

Congrats Jim, let us know how it sounds when you hook it up. Is the user interface better than your VK-5i? I know that was one of your reasons for changing.

John

John
We're still in the same boat there. Just volume. the esthetics changed, there are less tubes, likely as I recall it not as great a degree of warmth or darkness in the sonic envelope, and there are two pieces now instead of one, to give me fits isolating. But no. No greater flexibility for me. it seemed just not in the cards this time 'round. So be it. I foresee a major step up in sonics though, and I’ll take that every time.

Flexibility is nice. Quite special. Looked forward to it. But the bottom line is what is "to me" that I can do? given a choice I feel I made the proper one. No less functionality and if it's half the results from the all Thor deal I heard, it will be a delightful change.

All accounts point to the thor TA 1000 MK II as being superior to the non MK II in all aspects. Given that and this one has the Gold inlay, knobs and such... the added improvements in speed, bass resolve and transparency of the mids was better by some good measure than that of the BAT VK5i, no matter what I did to it. I took some time doing a lot to it as well. But no dice. The TA 1000 is clearly on another level. Probably has something to do with it being more money, huh?

I did however try to do something in regard to a sideways step with added flexibility. I even auditioned (if you can call it an audition) locally of the Ayre K 5xe SS pre.

The dealer for Ayre in my town, (Audio Visions South) sells also wilson, ML, krell, etc. They were kind enough to let me listen to a grand total of two songs. Well almost two. The salesman halted the Gordon Goodwin track part way through as he said he had no more time. It took two hours for them to give me that much of a break. I had to make an appointment for this episode too. I sat patiently and waited for almost nothing. Wilson Sophias, Ayre 7 CDP, Ayre 400 wpc monos, and all Transparent wires.

Twelve minutes of music wasn't enough for me to decide. though I was asked to decide 3 times before they ever played a track off their CD. I had brought my own but they weren’t interested in me hearing familiar music I guess.

Lets put it this way. right now? My HT receiver as preamp to my BAT amp does a better job by far. That's only if you actually want to hear the soul of the music and have more than a two dimensional sound stage. Obviously Audio Visions South feels 10 or 12 minutes is enough for someone to make a $3,000 decision. I simply do not. They did me no justice, nor did they give the Ayre products they represent justice. Not even close. they did offer me $50 off on it, so I did get pretty excited by that. it was the poorest exibition of equipment and professionalism I've seen in over 30 years. A home audition was mentioned but cost $150 IF I didn't keep it. No mention of the time frame however. I would gues it would be a whole day though, given the length of the in store demo.

things always work themselves out. always. later that day, other Audiogone members pointed the thor out to me. i made contact eventually, and here we are. I'm way ahead quite soon, they got what they deserved from me which was nothing. though I do feel bad Ayre was so wrongly exibited. they deserve better I’m sure. Anyone deserves better.

Audiogone, by far and away, continues to out distance themselves from some of the established high end audio store fronts simply by providing a resource for those "GENUINELY" interested and sincere buyers who have long since become tired of the arrogance and elitist attitudes some ‘dealers’ display so commonly.

So many positives came from that debacle. I saw the Sophias for the first time. Found out what sort of value they constitute. Removed them from my short list of speakers. Transparent as well. So in all, there was indeed gain. I suspect I should now be owing that dealership a debt of gratitude, rather than disgrace. They saved me much time and lots of money in the long run. All in all an eventful week has passed.

I wish I could say that this story surprised me, but it doesn't. And some people wonder why bricks and mortar stores go out of business. I don't bother much anymore.

IMHO, the Ayre would have been the only product that would have interested me in that store. You may want to e-mail Charles Hansen of Ayre this story. He seems like a 'good guy', and may be 'GENUINELY' interested in how his products are being represented. I would anyway.

Good luck with the Thor, and let me know how it sounds.

John

Thanks John ...and thanks for the video of miles and John C. that was super.

I've thought about relating this incident to Ayre... though they directed me to this place and said many people have positive things to say about them on the warranty forms they submit.

I sold a pc to a member that is local. he picked it up today. He is far more well versed in what other high end audio dealers about the country are doing as he is a frequent flyer, so to speak, and agreed wholeheartedly with me as to the treatment he received from them as well. He was taken aback by this dealer’s incredible lack of a customer friendly stance.

The most fitting phrase is "They believe the world to be filled with diabetics, and feel they have the only insulin". Such a posture is indeed a poor one. A true shame.

I have to think as yourself that as so many other store fronts of high end audio are now attaining the bulk of their receipts for HT sales and installations, actions of this sort are surely contributory to 2 channels decline in popularity and likely demise.

It is ironic that such great designers and engineers as are the muscle and sinew of the industry have to allow skeletons such as these, to now and then become their sales structure.

I will give the dealership credit for one thing though, they didn’t try to move me off Ayre and onto another product line. I’ve spoken with some sellers (a far better term than dealer), that right off , have told me after I have specifically asked to hear a certain thing… “No, you don’t want that… you wan’t a xxxx”. the greatest power there is in the universe is 'mind reading'.

I’ve never been much good at that mind reading thing but apparently, once surrounded by magga buck audio gear on a daily basis, special powers are acquired… far beyond those of mortal men. Again, not privy to telepathy myself, I did have a vision prior to leaving the store. I saw them losing $3000 that day, and some other amounts down the road. Clear as a bell.

Gee. Maybe I do have some power. I have the one power they will find as their Achilles. The power of choice. As all consumers do. I think it trumps their’s.

The singular power, just that one special gift, required to obtain my money, and my continued business was humility. Too bad.

It was left off their short list. More's the pity.

01-30-07: Blindjim

Thanks John ...and thanks for the video of miles and John C. that was super.

I've thought about relating this incident to Ayre... though they directed me to this place and said many people have positive things to say about them on the warranty forms they submit.

No problem with the video, it was fun to take a peek of MTV before MTV.

The fact that many people say positive things on the warranty forms simply reveals that those who give their money to this store are happy. It does not show all the money this store has turned away. Maybe they don't want to be bigger who knows. I do think enough of Charles that I'd let him know my opinion. Classy manufacturers welcome even negative feedback, as they realize that no one is perfect, and it only makes them stronger. If all of the negative experiences go unreported, then problems are never addressed. Though I have no respect for the store that you dealt with, I have enough for Charles and Ayre, that I would just offer them my impressions of how this dealer displayed their products.
Mention your friends reaction to this dealer as well. I would think that Charles would want to properly display his equipment. Who knows, he may even offer you an in-home demo for free.

Best,
John