madavid0,
I just finished reading this entire thread. You've described your experiences using class D amps in your system as:
" Mid-range GONE.
Soundstage depth CRUSHED.
Euphonics DISAPPEARED.
Yes, resolution went up. Driver control went up, allowing me to play compressed rock/pop and orchestra with the speakers being able to render it all. But enjoyment in the sound is basically gone. Using my best power cable (LessLoss Original) improved performance, but didn't fundamentally change the amp's nature. I ran back to my headphones (Focal Utopias) to detox my ear canals."
" I can definitely detect that element of...whatever it is. Dryness? Poor blending of upper- mids into highs? Lack of weight? There's a SOMETHING to the sound that hints to listener fatigue.""Also....am I crazy or is this amp casting an unstable image? Like sounds don't want to focus and stay there."
Like....the vocalist says a word that happens a little to the right, but the trailing consonant finishes a little on the left.""Damn, 24 hours later and this amp sounds like trash -- rolled off / recessed mids again, soundstage depth almost gone...wow. I guess this thing with wired class D burn-in is true. "
You seem to attribute all of the above to the class D amplifiers and you've received replies affirming these perceptions of the poor quality of class D from the herd of Audiogon usual suspects of class D naysayers that reliably chime in on most threads mentioning class D.
Of course, the naysayers chiming in their aspersions was not surprising but, not being aware of you being similarly afflicted with their knee-jerk anti-class D bias, I was very surprised to read of your negative results. I have no experience or knowledge of the Teac class D offerings but I do for the D-Sonic and several other companies' class D offerings.
As a user of 3 different class D amps over the past 3 years (The ClassDAudio SDS-440-CS and the Emerald Physics Ep-102 stereo amps as well as a pair of D-Sonic M3-600-M monoblock amps) in my system driving Magnepan 4 ohm speakers, I find it hard to believe the D-Sonic M3-800-S amp is performing so poorly in your system.
Even straight out of the box, I would expect the main attributes of the D-Sonic M-800-S amp to be immediately and obviously apparent; very good bass response and control, extremely low noise floor, very good dynamics with a smooth and neutral mid-range and treble that is also very detailed without any hint of brightness or harshness, In my experience with the D-Sonic monos, that use Anaview/Abletech modules rather than the Pascals in your amp, there was a reasonable break-in period but I recall them sounding very good immediately and then proceeding to improve mainly in the mid-range and treble detail and smoothness over the first few weeks.
You not getting similar results in your system suggests to me that there may be another culprit or culprits responsible in your system. There are several possibilities: your left and right speakers may not have been properly matched at the manufacturer, you have 1 or more drivers blown/not performing to original spec or your D-Sonic amp is not functioning up to spec.
There are a few methods to narrow down any issues that may exist:
1. Bring your D-Sonic amp to a friend's or dealer's and test it out with their speakers/system.
2. Borrow a friend's or dealer's amp that you can verify is working properly and determine if the sound differs.
3. Take your speakers to a friend or dealer and connect them to their amp ,that they can verify is functioning properly, and determine if the sound differs.
#1 will identify whether your D-Sonic amp is the culprit and #2 or #3 will identify whether your speakers are the culprit.
I think trying #1 and then #2 sequentially would likely be the most efficient, least laborious and sufficient method to identify exactly what is causing your system's poor performance.
If the amp continues to under-perform, I'd suggest contacting D-Sonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, about your issues. He's very knowledgeable, reasonable and fair.
If you go through this method, please post your results. If you're accepting wagers, please put me down for $5K straight-up on your speakers being the culprit.
A final friendly tip: If you try your D-Sonic in a friend's system, don't expect it back without a struggle.
Thanks and good luck,
Tim
I just finished reading this entire thread. You've described your experiences using class D amps in your system as:
" Mid-range GONE.
Soundstage depth CRUSHED.
Euphonics DISAPPEARED.
Yes, resolution went up. Driver control went up, allowing me to play compressed rock/pop and orchestra with the speakers being able to render it all. But enjoyment in the sound is basically gone. Using my best power cable (LessLoss Original) improved performance, but didn't fundamentally change the amp's nature. I ran back to my headphones (Focal Utopias) to detox my ear canals."
" I can definitely detect that element of...whatever it is. Dryness? Poor blending of upper- mids into highs? Lack of weight? There's a SOMETHING to the sound that hints to listener fatigue.""Also....am I crazy or is this amp casting an unstable image? Like sounds don't want to focus and stay there."
Like....the vocalist says a word that happens a little to the right, but the trailing consonant finishes a little on the left.""Damn, 24 hours later and this amp sounds like trash -- rolled off / recessed mids again, soundstage depth almost gone...wow. I guess this thing with wired class D burn-in is true. "
You seem to attribute all of the above to the class D amplifiers and you've received replies affirming these perceptions of the poor quality of class D from the herd of Audiogon usual suspects of class D naysayers that reliably chime in on most threads mentioning class D.
Of course, the naysayers chiming in their aspersions was not surprising but, not being aware of you being similarly afflicted with their knee-jerk anti-class D bias, I was very surprised to read of your negative results. I have no experience or knowledge of the Teac class D offerings but I do for the D-Sonic and several other companies' class D offerings.
As a user of 3 different class D amps over the past 3 years (The ClassDAudio SDS-440-CS and the Emerald Physics Ep-102 stereo amps as well as a pair of D-Sonic M3-600-M monoblock amps) in my system driving Magnepan 4 ohm speakers, I find it hard to believe the D-Sonic M3-800-S amp is performing so poorly in your system.
Even straight out of the box, I would expect the main attributes of the D-Sonic M-800-S amp to be immediately and obviously apparent; very good bass response and control, extremely low noise floor, very good dynamics with a smooth and neutral mid-range and treble that is also very detailed without any hint of brightness or harshness, In my experience with the D-Sonic monos, that use Anaview/Abletech modules rather than the Pascals in your amp, there was a reasonable break-in period but I recall them sounding very good immediately and then proceeding to improve mainly in the mid-range and treble detail and smoothness over the first few weeks.
You not getting similar results in your system suggests to me that there may be another culprit or culprits responsible in your system. There are several possibilities: your left and right speakers may not have been properly matched at the manufacturer, you have 1 or more drivers blown/not performing to original spec or your D-Sonic amp is not functioning up to spec.
There are a few methods to narrow down any issues that may exist:
1. Bring your D-Sonic amp to a friend's or dealer's and test it out with their speakers/system.
2. Borrow a friend's or dealer's amp that you can verify is working properly and determine if the sound differs.
3. Take your speakers to a friend or dealer and connect them to their amp ,that they can verify is functioning properly, and determine if the sound differs.
#1 will identify whether your D-Sonic amp is the culprit and #2 or #3 will identify whether your speakers are the culprit.
I think trying #1 and then #2 sequentially would likely be the most efficient, least laborious and sufficient method to identify exactly what is causing your system's poor performance.
If the amp continues to under-perform, I'd suggest contacting D-Sonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, about your issues. He's very knowledgeable, reasonable and fair.
If you go through this method, please post your results. If you're accepting wagers, please put me down for $5K straight-up on your speakers being the culprit.
A final friendly tip: If you try your D-Sonic in a friend's system, don't expect it back without a struggle.
Thanks and good luck,
Tim