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Comments, please, on Spica TC-60 setup.

I'm new to the forum and have a decidedly beer-budget approach to music reproduction, but would appreciate any comments or advice on setting up a pair of TC-60s I bought recently on eBay. I hear they're tricky, and would like to think they're capable of better than what I'm hearing.

The system: Harman/Kardon HK3500 50wpc receiver & FL8550 5-disc CD changer and Mission 772 speakers being replaced with Spica TC-60s. Monster interconnects and XP speaker wire (2 10' pairs for biwiring). Also, Stax Lambda Pros with SRD-X energizer.

The issue: The Spica's are much more reticent than the Missions on dynamics and vocals, and the imaging, while good and deeper than the Missions, is not dramatically better.

The setup: very lively 12x18 room with 9' ceiling. Speakers 4' from front wall, 2' from side walls, 8' apart on 26" metal stands. Listening position 4' from back wall, 10' from speakers. As it's an apartment, listening levels are natural only on quiet vocal material.

This arrangement seems to yield the best soundstage, but it's not what you'd call holographic. It's a little more tightly defined than the Missions' and deeper. Bass is also much more articulate. But, the upper midrange reticence (around 1-2KHz) is just killing vocals and any sense of immediacy. Norah Jones and Abbey Lincoln are just too far away and hiding behind a thin curtain. The Missions are perhaps too up-front, killing soundstage depth, but intimate vocals are right there and very close to the Staxes in tonal balance. With the Spicas, only on livelier material like Paul Simon's Rythm of the Saints cranked up to near-natural levels (enough to bother the neighbors downstairs) do the dynamics start to open up and generate a sense of space despite the laid-back reproduction of the vocals. These speakers seem to need to be fairly loud. At low levels, the dynamics just aren't there.

Now, obviously, better source and amplification gear would help. Better stands would help. Better cables might help. But, in terms of dynamics and presence, the Missions manage much better with this modest kit, albeit with a more forward and much shallower soundstage. I'm not aiming for the ultimate in resolution here. I just want a believable soundstage and presence. I have to believe the TC-60s can sound better, and I'm hoping it's a question of positioning.

My 20-year-old memories of the TC-50, and the reviews of the TC-50 and Angelus I've read, led me to expect a somewhat thin, tipped-up sound from the TC-60, which would suit me fine if the imaging lived up to Spica's reputation. But, this is exactly the opposite of what I'm hearing. It's not that voices are chesty, but more that their upper octaves are rolled off.

Any help or comments, especially from TC-60 owners, would be greatly appreciated.
jacquescornell
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
Wow. These speakers just keep getting better and better. I wouldn't trade 'em for the $3,000 Audio Physics I auditioned yesterday.

Yet another position tweak makes these babies not only sing but also thump instead of bonk. Had to learn again the lesson of front wall distance. After having the Spicas three feet from the front wall for a week (I just couldn't give up the idea that more distance = better imaging), I've put 'em closer to the front wall (23" between the wall and the speaker's nearest corner - they're toed in) and a little further from the side walls (16"). The first move flattened out the upper bass hump that was pushing voices away and making me shop for an equalizer, and extended the bottom end very impressively. These speakers don't sound like small stand-mounters any more. The second move solidified the imaging ever so slightly.

At this point, a shift of three inches in any direction, especially front-back, affects the tonal balance substantially. I'm now moving the speakers an inch at a time to tune the bass. A 1" shift away from the front wall got rid of a resonance that was making certain notes on electric and acoustic bass stand out noticably. For the kind of material I listen to, I really don't need my Mission subwoofer any more, but it's already in the shop for repair. Mission is being completely unresponsive to inquiries about replacement parts. Makes me wonder if they're going out of business.

Anyway, the lesson for any new TC-60 owners is to experiment like crazy with positioning. I've never seen a speaker so dramatically affected by positioning. In the wrong position, these speakers can be pretty blah. Get it right, though, and the rewards are terrific.
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
Bass reinforcement is even better and smoother with the TC-60s two feet out from a long wall in my 12x19 room. Absolutely no need for a subwoofer on acoustic music, as kick drum and acoustic bass have plenty of weight. Though I don't have the manual, I've read that it recommends placement 2'-3' out from a long wall. However, my room is too narrow, and reflections off the back wall, just two feet behind the listening position, muddy the imaging and foreshorten the soundstage depth. So, the TC-60s are back along the short wall again. Bass is lighter and suffers mild resonance, but instruments and voices have lots of space around 'em.
jacquescornell OP
56 posts
 
Lowering the TC-60s eliminated the bass resonance. Replaced the 26" stands with 16" cinder blocks. I think the resonance was caused by the height (26") being too similar to the distances from the side walls (27") and the front wall (33"). My chair is very low, but the cinder blocks are still about 3" too short. Will eventually replace them with 18"-20" stands. Thinking of VTI RF 19".

Currently no sub in use. Tried a Mission 700AS sub using high-level pass-through connections, but it sapped the imaging and didn't integrate well. Now debating whether to add an active crossover or just sell the sub. Will add Straightwire cables & interconnects (found a great deal) soon to replace my cheap Monster stuff.

Soundstaging & imaging are now terrific. Bass is smooth, but slightly muddy compared to my friend's Brentworth Type IIIs. Lower midrange is a tad warmer than I'd like on vocals, but very nice on the right recordings. Treble is detailed and smooth, but not airy. Overall, pretty amazing for a <$1,000 speaker. Imaging is in the same league with some good $3,000 speakers.

Interestingly, I can adjust the soundstage for big sound (Lyle Lovett, Manhattan Transfer, Dire Straits) and intimate sound (Miles Davis, Boz Scaggs) simply by moving my chair front-back by about one foot: closer for big and farther for intimate. No need to move the speakers.
jimburger
104 posts
 
I have owned a pair of Spica TC-50's since 1988 and they were my main speakers until 1994. I used it with a Forte model 3. A really good amplifier will really make Spicas sing. I have heard the TC-50's with everything from a little NAD 3130 (30wpc) $200(new) to the mighty Threshold SA4e (100wpc pure class A, $6300 in 1989). The better the front end, the better the results with the Spicas. The little TC-50 mated with the SA-4e produced some of the best sounds I have ever heard in hi end audio. No kidding. Of course NOBODY would ever mate a $550 speaker with a $6300 amplifier but it did sound totally awesome. I also auditioned the TC-50's with the Threshold S/200, Forte'1a, Forte'3, Aragon 4004, and NAD 2600 amplifiers and the TC-50 is transparent enough to display the vast differences in the sonic signatures of the various amplifiers. You might try finding an old Forte'model 1A or model 3. They mate really well with the Spicas and really make them come alive. I am not certain which subs will mate well with the TC-60 but the TC-50 did well with the Vandersteen 2W. You will need separate amp and preamp to utilize the 2W because it utilizes a passive line level crossover.
opalchip
355 posts
 
Here's my theory on mating smallish ported speakers like the TC-60 with a sub(s).

1st part of the problem - if you're running the speaker level output from your receiver through the sub's crossover then into the Spicas, you have probably already scrambled the phase of even the high-passed signal. So the whole advantage of the TC-60's design is out the window.

2nd part of the problem is that the TC-60's port will still create it's "one note" bass even with the main speakers crossed over to the sub above the port's tuned resonance. The port output interacts with the sub's output and creates a hump in the bass response and mud.

3rd part of the problem is that to get full benefit, you need to crossover at a fairly high frequency since, without the ports reinforcement, the speakers just don't go all that low. So the sub drivers have to be small enough to accurately produce at THEIR higher end. And if you crossover high up - imaging from the sub becomes an issue. So basically, two 10" subs are better than one 12" or 15".

To attempt a solution -
Try this - pack an old tee shirt loosely all the way into each of the TC-60's ports. You don't want to seal the speaker airtight - you just want to interfere with and dissipate the bass response of the port itself. This will allow the sub to do it's thing without interference, and will improve the imaging from the mains.

If this isn't how you were doing it - Run the sub directly from the receiver's subwoofer outputs while running the speakers from the receiver's normal speaker outs. Experiment with setting the sub's internal crossover on the higher or lower points (which are both pretty high on the Mission, anyway).

Make sure that the sub is EXACTLY centered between the speakers AND the same DISTANCE from you as the Spica's midrange drivers.

If this works pretty well, consider adding a 2nd sub in a stereo configuration.

I haven't tried this with TC-60's specifically, but it has worked well on other ported designs I have played around with.
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