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Dazed & Confused

Listening to mostly jazz, solo instruments and vocals I find my Martin Logan Spire hybrids to sound awesome, but recently I was listening to some both "Busy" 90’s rock and classical (lots of instruments playing loudly together) and I find the music starts to sound garbled and annoying (to bright), so much so, I turn it off.
I was wondering if you all might have some suggestions on some speakers that would be a little more forgiving with busy/loud music that I could possibly switch over to when listening to different types of music. That is unless I can find speakers that can handle all styles of music, then I would consider taking the hit ($$$) on selling the Spires.

Without getting into room size and dynamics, lets just call it a standard room, I was also looking for something more efficient. The Spires need a huge amount of power (and volume) to sound good. Looking more for something I can listen to loud but also still enjoy the music at a much lower volume if that’s at all possible. Neutral and not to bright.
Living in the sticks, I can’t just jump in the car to go demo speakers. Only once, in the past, did I purchase a set of speakers online and unheard, going solely on the sales person’s recommendations. I learned the hard way to never do that again!

Equipment now: Coda CSiB integrated amp with W4S 2v2 SE Dac running Roon Nucleus.

I also wanted to mention that the Spires have phenomenal base, so much so I sold the 2 subs I was originally using with them. Floor standers and bookshelfs have come along way in SQ these days, but if I need to purchase another set of subs the budget is starting to dwindle.

No vinyl or CD’s, just Tidal.

$3,000 - $5000 budget, new or newer demos.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice you may have to offer!
Paul
high-amp
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almarg
9,670 posts
 

This was the manufactures response to your suggestion Al:

“The DAC has hot outputs that may be too much for your integrated. I would suggest a level of 55 and if that is still too much then go RCA at that level.”

I tried RCA and what I got was a lower volume and a little less detail (lackluster sound ) than with balanced connections. Definitely a little brighter, but in a nice sort of way. I turned the volume down to 55 (from 65) as the manufacturer suggested and have left it at that for now. Any comments?


Hi Paul,

I would also ask W4S how much sonic degradation they would expect, if any, when the DAC is asked to drive a balanced load impedance of 1K.

If their answer is that audibly significant degradation is likely to result then I would continue to use RCA interconnections, in which case the DAC is presented with a vastly more benign 50K load impedance, as I had indicated. And I would look elsewhere for the cause of the lackluster sound quality you referred to. It’s usually best, IMO, to try to determine and address the root cause of an issue rather than compensating for it by introducing a different issue.

On the other hand, if they feel that 1K would be no problem for the particular DAC, perhaps it would be best to return to the balanced cables and turn the DAC’s volume control down a bit further.

Of course, another variable in all of this is the relative sonic quality of the balanced vs. unbalanced interface circuits of the two components, which can probably be determined only by listening (if a 1K load is suitable for the DAC).

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al



high-amp OP
508 posts
 
OK, thanks Al. I will ask.
 I have noticed W4S isn't so great with responding but I will try.
Would anybody else on this forum possibly know the answer to your questions?
jrwaudio
345 posts
 
Hello High-amp

Humm I've been looking to buy a pair of Spires for awhile, but always run into the issue of shipping across country. Most sellers want local pickup. Another concern I have is my VAC PA 80 80 amp set in triode mode. Will it have enough juice to drive the  ML I also have a SVS ultra 13 sub that would possibly lighten the load. From my research placement is critical for the ML and struggle somewhat playing recordings like AC/DC at high db levels : )  Salk makes amazing speakers, I've heard very good things about Dynaudio and Paradigm reference speakers 
Good luck in your endeavour 

high-amp OP
508 posts
 
Al, W4S never got back to me with more than their original response being: “The DAC has hot outputs that may be too much for your integrated. I would suggest a level of 55 and if that is still too much then go RCA at that level.”So I'm guessing if there were any further concerns they would have responded further. The best sound for me is with the DAC at full volume, running the balance cables.
high-amp OP
508 posts
 

Hey jrwaudio,

At the end of the day, it seems my whole issue stemmed from a couple of poorly recorded CD's and a few minor tweaks here and there. Things could be made to even sound better but fortunately, the ML’s are very forgiving to hard surfaces, they just need a little room to breathe which I have found out thanks to the members here.

My wife and I originally demoed the Spires at our local dealer with a PrimaLuna integrated amp rated at 34wpc which seemed to power the ML’s just fine and sounded sweet. Tubes sounded better than the SS amp I have now, I just wanted the reliably of SS at the time.

My wife was influential in the decision to purchase the Spires, we actually went 2 ½ times over our budget in purchasing them. We really thought they sounded unbelievable compare to others, 2 ½ times so, and still do.

Being the first of ML’s CLX I think t ML really went all out with the Spires as far as to build quality and sound reproduction.

After reading your comments I played AC/DC Back in Black and it sounded great, the Spires can rock just as well as they play jazz. B7B is probably a much better recording than that of the YES, Close to the Edge CD as per my original posted complaint here.

  I am changing residences next year, where ever I go I'm sure my listening room will be much smaller, so still on the lookout for something more efficient and definitely a bit smaller with possibly consideration of going with tubes.

I am very happy with my Spires and think they sound amazing regardless of the room they are in now. I know they will be difficult to replace with my budget in mind, so always open to members' suggestions here!


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