Denon 2900: Questions, comments

Bob: I'm not trying to sell cables as i'm not in the audio business. I provided those links for two reasons. One is to show that not everything has to cost a lot of money to work well. The other was to provide some background on the "no-names" that i was using from someone else's perspective.

El: I have to agree with you in general. That is, why can one player / model do some things SO much better than the competition ? As a side note, if you think that the Denon is slow, you don't want to try using a newer Philips machine. The Philips units don't even play DVD-A ( not as many different discs to recognize ) and on top of that, they are so sloooooow to change tracks, etc... As far as recognizing that there is a disc there, i've not had a problem with that. Put a disc in, wait a few seconds and then it's ready to go. No need for resetting, etc...

As to your comments about the sonics of the 2900, this unit seems to really need a lot of playing time on it. With all digital gear that i get, i simply install a disc ( i have some specifics i use for this ) and let it play on repeat "forever". Some players seem to settle in after about 72 hours whereas others ( like the Denon ) need hundreds of hours. On top of this, as you change modes, you change filter circuitry. What i'm getting at is that each mode of playback needs to be broken in individually.

For those that are worried about leaving a unit on repeat and / or the extra wear and tear, units that i've done this with seem to last as long or longer than units that were not broken in this way by others. I also leave my units powered up 24/7 though, so there is less thermal cycling and in-rush current surges to deal with. Yes, my SACD 1000 did "croak", but it was powered up for about 11 months non-stop. Many SACD 1000's didn't make it past a few weeks or even a couple of months before faulty circuitry gave out. Either i was lucky or my break-in / constant power routine helped a little.

Flex: Thanks for the info. I have not spent much time on SACD's with this unit. I don't have any DVD-A's, so you can guess where i'm at in this respect. Your comments about sonics are quite encouraging. As such, i probably need some more time on my unit and further attention to cabling. I'm certain that a power cord swap will help things out too.

Out of curiosity, what have you ended up finding to work well with your unit in the confines of your system in terms of footers, power cords, interconnects, etc ??? For sake of clarity, what type of rack do you have your player in ? The reason that i ask is that each rack has different factors to take into consideration i.e. isolation, coupling, rigidity, etc... "Ben" might find good luck with some specific products, but "Jerry" might have a very different rack. As such, one should not assume that what works in one system will work in another due to all of the variables. In case you're wondering, i am a firm believer that racks do contribute their sonic signature to the system.

My 2900 is in my HT system, which is housed in a 10 shelf Sanus rack. While far from ideal, it was inexpensive and utilitarian, especially so since i could purchase the parts wholesale : ) As such, the shelves are part of the support structure, which i really don't like, but at this point in time, that's what i've got to use. I haven't tinkered with any type of footer underneath this unit, so i'm more than open to suggestions taking into account the type of rack that i'm currently using.

As far as your comments about "modding" the unit go, i definitely have that in mind for this unit. I hesitated to do so with my SACD 1000 after so many people had problems with them. That is, i didn't want to void the warranty doing mods and then have the unit take a dive. I've got more confidence in the 2900, even though i know that they had some initial problems with these units too. For the record, i've seen "refurbed" 2900's on the market, but i was told by a friend of mine that is a dealer to stay away from these. According to him, the folks that refurb these for Denon do a less than stellar job. This is not to mention that many of the places selling these are NOT authorized Denon dealers and you don't get ANY warranty with them. Sean
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sean...The Denon disc loading issue comes up when you switch from one type of disc to another (CD, SACD, DVDA, or DVDV. It does not always happen, and I am not sure exactly what situation gets the machine confused. Cycling the drawer always seems to solve the problem.

Sean,

Regarding cables and racks, a few comments on what has worked in my system.

I dislike cones, bearings, elastomers and the like because of the inevitable sonic signatures, so I haven't put time into these and can't offer advice. The Denon does well on my recently acquired Grand Prix Monaco rack, which of course wasn't bought for the Denon. The GP btw is the quietest and least signature-prone rack I've had experience with. Previous to the GP, the best support was a Neuance alpha shelf, and for an affordable solution, I'd be tempted to try a newer Neuance replacement shelf with your existing rack. It doesn't need cones and should be evenhanded over a wide bandwidth, particularly if the bass is tighter and deeper than on the alpha.

On interconnects, my experience may parallel some of yours. Of the half dozen ic's I've tried, the Denon became unlistenable with cables known for forwardness or brightness, including a pair of Nordost Quattro Fil, and silver ic's with some residual silver brightness (e.g older Pure Notes). These were less problematic with my solid state cd front end cabled identically, so the Denon exacerbates the brightness. Interconnects that I've had good results with on the other hand are non-bright silvers (especially Empirical pc-holophonics) and MIT (copper,expensive) that provide neutrality, speed, detail, good staging, etc

Power cords may be system-dependent, but I've had a couple of dozen of them available during the Denon's residence and they all show the colorations they are known for. I agree with what I take to be the implied conclusions in Bill Gaw's review that numerous well-known pc's seemingly aimed at tubed systems sound variously thick and heavy, dark, slow, rolled off, fat, bright, whatever, with the Denon. Again, it responded best to neutral, quick, and detailed sound, and that correlated with low inductance, low capacitance, and generally unshielded cords. IMS, it shows a particular affinity for an MIT Oracle3 power cord; it also works with Pure Note and Empirical. It works particularly well with open airy sound (Pure Note Sigma, probably TG Audio) but the Sigma lacks bass IMS and is far from uncolored. For the record, my system is solid state and revealing, and the front end power cords plug into a Sound Application line stage plc.

A number of companies are working on mods for the 2900 - Exemplar Audio, Underwood, and Ric Schultz that I know of. Warranties are a lost cause after a year anyway, and things are evolving in the high rez business, so you may be trying something else a few years from now.

Flex: Thanks for your input.

As far as your rack goes, i wish i had that rack for this system as i'm using something that is much lower on the totem pole. Having said that, i have to wonder how one of Ken's Neuance shelves would work as a replacement to the stock shelves on the GP. Have you ever tried this or any other shelves ?

I do have one of Ken's older Neaunce shelves, so maybe i'll try throwing that under the Denon and use it as a "platform" over the stock shelf. I can't substitute the Neuance permanently due to the differences in design.

As far as power cords go, i've got quite a few variations over here along with at least one that you mentioned as working pretty well. I'll have to give that a go and see where it takes me.

As far as modifying goes, i'll probably end up doing this myself. I do want to wait a bit though as i've heard / read of problems on some of these units and want to make sure that this one is okay before "gutting" it. I haven't quite had it a month yet, so it's still relatively fresh even though it has hundreds of hours on it. I did the same thing with my Philips and i'm glad that i did. It finally "crapped out" after about 10 months of use. If i would have modified it right away, i would have voided the two year warranty, which i obviously need right now. Hopefully, the Denon will be a little more reliable : ) Sean
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Sean,
The GP shelves are supported on weight-graded dampers and cut out to fit the vertical supports, so switching to something like the Neuance shelf is not a routine thing. Also the GP has deeper and tighter bass than the older Neuance shelves did, so that replacement may be a step backwards. More importantly, there is a signficant design difference in these shelves. Ken Lyons' old shelves were intended to sit on points, definitely not dampers, and to avoid horizontal motion, while Alvin Lloyd's shelves are mounted to allow free (damped) movement in the horizontal plane. If I were to try other shelving, I think I'd be inclined to use the GP F1 carbon fiber composites ($$$). The GP is very good as is, so it's pointless worrying about the acrylic shelves unless you're just out to explore. Also, every footer or cone I've checked on the GP degrades the sound.

The older Neuance shelves need upturned cones underneath them if you're going to just throw it on top of your rack shelf, and that will always add the cone signature (equally true with the dh cones that Ken Lyon likes). His new shelf does not need cones, and I believe is built to sit directly on your shelf.

I know a couple of analog designers doing their own overhauls on the Denon too. At this price point, it's tempting. The worst that happens if you void the warranty is that you pay for repairs.