Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

The most recent challenges are based on the very obvious differences in the Geometries selected.

As said before I have received enough information through this Thread to have been stimulated and influenced, resulting in the request being made to a Tonearm designer to incorporate a underhung design into a upcoming comparison and evaluation of Tonearms.

Even when the Geometry of the New Design Tonearm is one that is very closely matched to the 'Viv', the experience will not in any way allow for assuming the Tonearm resembles the 'Viv' in use. There will be quite obvious differences in the Mechanical Interfaces used for each design.

What will be learnt is how the conventional Geometry used on a Tonearm of a particular design, compares to the same design Tonearm with an alternative Geometry.

I am today, as a result of having encountered experiences gathered over the period of multiple years, left with a certainty that when Tonearms are experienced in use using the alignment Geometries from Lofgren, Baerwald or Stevenson, it is neither of these alignments that are responsible for showing out the noticeable differences that can be detected between presentations.

Setting to one side the variations of Cart' and devices in use for a system, that can easily be suggested as accountable for a producing a noticeable difference, there is also the Mechanical Structure of the Tonearm and the methods used to produce the Mechanical Interfaces in a Tonearm.

I am today very interested in Tonearms that have been designed to be with a extremely low friction impact on the mechanical interfaces, the Tonearm I have in use at present has many man hours required to create this condition. 

I can't but help feel that the positive impression being made from use of the 'Viv' by @lewm, is additionally influenced by experiencing a Tonearm with an alternative Mechanical Interface, inclusive of methods for transferring/dissipating energy not seen in a conventional design. 

 As for Geometry options, I am using for more that 8 Years and remaining contented using the Stevenson Geometry.

I don't feel the need to revisit any other similar Geometries as means to replace Stevenson, but do like the idea of experiencing a Geometry that is quite different in concept.   

Pindac, what you want to do, which is a logical way to compare overhang to underhang, seems to have been done by Intact Audio with a Schroeder tonearm. Perhaps Dave (aka Intact Audio) can say more. I think the headshell is held at an angle, on some Schroeder tonearms, by a single screw, making it easy to set offset to zero. Then you’d just have to move the pivot back away from the spindle to achieve underhang.

@lewm  : "  the theory would predict that the Viv should sound grossly distorted (your term)  "

Not really a theory but imagination of some gentlemans.

R.

I don’t understand your last post.

@pindac when you wrote:

I can't but help feel that the positive impression being made from use of the 'Viv' by @lewm, is additionally influenced by experiencing a Tonearm with an alternative Mechanical Interface, inclusive of methods for transferring/dissipating energy not seen in a conventional design. 

Are you suggesting it is the floating golfball in oil that is responsible for the sound that owners like, as it sounds like you don't think it is the geometry? If so, you might be right, but I'm doubtful. I don't want to start another, separate debate, but I suspect the various sorts of bearings and pivots available have smaller effects than a radically different tonearm geometry.

The question that should be central to all of this is which is the greater sin: TAE or added anti-skate force? And the only difficulty in answering what should be a simple question is that so few people have an underhung tonearm. Is that because they sound terrible, or because we have misunderstood something basic, that was not even considered when the architects of conventional tonearm protocols were at work? Just imagine the fun if the sainted Lofgren was given a blind listening test!