Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

Pindac, good question about stylus wear. We’ll have to wait and see; using theory, I could argue either side of that question in favor of either overhang with AS or underhang.

My experience of dealing with AS has left me to do the method where there is a eye on the Styli/Cantilever within the Groove at the Outer Grooves approx’ 5mm inside of the Lead In Dead Wax and again at the Inner Groove approx’ 5mm inside of the Lead Out Dead Wax.

As long as the Cantilever is seemingly to my eye not askew, I settle for that as the side force that is to work with said Cartridge. This is the one that seemingly transfers across a selection of Albums. As said in the past in my descriptions the Hole Centre Groove Misalignment when present has a Industry Standard that does not increase to more than 0.2mm.

As I have a interest in Cart’s Optimisation, I have quite a few years of observing Cart’s conditions, as a result of viewing images supplied by Third Party Services and others with a similar interest to my own for taking Macro Images and showing their own Cart’s. On numerous occasions I have witnessed Cart’s from a broad range of purchase values, that are with Cantilevers noticeably askew and off the Centre Line to the Cart’s Body.

I have the notion, this is a cause due to the Cart’s fragility in conjunction with incorrect AS being used at the time of Set Up, or AS Creep has occurred and has not been recognised to have occurred through a extended period of the Cart’s usage.

It does seem to me the cause of the askew, is usually outside of what a loss of set up for overall optimisation, or what any wear and tear issues developing within the Cart’s critical mechanical interfaces is able to create. I would also strongly suggest such off centred cantilevers are resulting in a excess of force being applied/developing, that is capable of causing uneven wear to a Groove Wall and a Styli. How much damage is occurring to the LP’s Groove Wall that is irreparable, is something I have not got the knowledge to comment on.

Is there any known situations where a user has reported back that a Cart’ with a In Line Cantilever, after a period of usage on a Underhung Geometry has been witnessed to have a Cantilever that is quite noticeably askew to the Cart’s Centre Line??

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Dear @lewm : Seems to me that you " die for " the skating force and nothing wrong with that.

Now, LT tonearms appeared for one main critical reason ( where skate develoved was not in that " equation ". ) that was and is that the mounted cartridge on it rides the LP grooves surface in "exactly " the same way that that LP recording was under the cutting head machine this is LT.

Audiophiles, me including, bougth the LT ( still today do. ) designs for that main critical reason and no one said or say: " I’m buy because no skating ", no one cares about because this is only an additional side LT tonearm benefit.

In the other side almost all the off-set angle pivot tonearms come with some kind of anti-skating mechanism that in some way or the other has the AS under " control " and no not " perfect " but those kind of designers try to put at minimum.

So, all overhang tonearm designs with Löfgreen alignments set-up are ( no matter what ) the second best " road " behind the LT and not the underhung that you like it or not is far away from there . The overhang tonearm designs are not with ZERO ( 0 ) AS, designers take care about in the best each one of them can and again not " perfect "..

R.

This morning being a leisurely Sunday morning, I re-read the entirety of this thread from beginning to end, although I admit I skipped through some of those from naysayers that I already knew by heart. What struck me is that each of the major protagonists (or should I call us "antagonists"), myself included, wrote the same thing, over and over again, sometimes using different words but not much different logic. Around page 5, I bought the Viv 9HA (9-inch, aluminum tube) and started reporting on that. That was about a year ago this month. I remain very pleased with this tonearm. If anything, I have understated the degree to which I enjoy it so as to avoid the predictable backlash. Suffice to say, I agree with the other guys who are also owners and who posted one or two very positive comments and then left this thread, wisely.

Raul, why is it that my ideas about why the Viv sounds so good are just "blah, blah, blah", whereas your constant parroting of your belief system over and over again is not also "blah"? (I’m giving you only one "blah", because it’s so boring.) Is it just because the overhung tonearm is received wisdom? AS does NOT "control" the skating force, by any means, by the way. One could make an argument that AS makes things worse by putting a torque on the cantilever, which is already under horizontal duress due to skating. AS is like a stopped clock; it is correct (i.e., it equals the skating force in magnitude) at two short moments during the 20 minutes duration of an LP side. And even then it is combining with the skating force to put a twist on the cantilever, because it is applied near the pivot.

Again, not perfect but second best option behind the LT, that's all.

What you like is what you like and it's not my " business " and I can't disagree with what you like. End of dialogue because you never posted any fact/measurements for what you support, fine. Enough.

R.