DPS/Schroeder Ref. Turntable

Thom:
Interesting stuff re: avy beacons. For reference, I am in the snow 180+ days per year and DO use a beacon as a life-saving device.

I keep tabs on current technology but also know why I continue to use my preferred choice of beacon.

I think a key difference is that here we discuss something subjective (what sounds best to our ears), whereas with beacons we have something truly measurable (time required to find someone buried). Now, the complication is that an experienced user who knows what his beacon can/cannot do can get close to the theoretical minimum -- or at least know where the "gotchas" are.

For tonearms, an experienced user can get closer to the theoretical maximum performance -- but that it STILL subjective.

And, yes, it is amusing how life-saving devices can be discussed with more sterility than tonearms, but when we're talking about $4k and more for a tonearm, it's a safe thing to say that we're in the "leisure class" and fairly far removed from battling for daily survival.

Me? I chose both my tonearm and current preferred beacon based on objective (as close as they can come for tonearms is, maybe, comparing vs other options) and subjective measures. While I'm very, very fast with my beacon and it is great with multiple burials and transmits a very strong (long-range) signal, it's not what I recommend to everyone.

If you knew someone lived out in the sticks and had no help setting up their TT.... which arm would you recommend? (Rhetorical question)

Would a poorly setup "reference" arm that is notorious for challenging setup be bested by a well-set-up "lesser" arm that is "easy" for those fat-fingered?

It's a different question when we have this group of more folks who are more capable of properly setting up most arms (or is that being too generous in stating the skills of those on A-gon? .... $$ does not necessarily equate to facility in setting up a mechanical device) -- but it still comes down to subjective criteria.

Also... I had it from a good source that Schoeder tonearms really aren't available any longer. Can you shed any light on this? When did the last one you ordered come in? I know someone on the waiting list for more than 16 months with no known "start" date.

For what its worth, going back to the original post regarding the dps and verdier I can make a few comments. First and most important, we do run a store which has both verdier and dps, but we don't internet sell to any degree and my partner and I are both long time audionuts that decided to set up a business. All this just says, I don't believe I have much of an axe to grind and I don't care if you buy one or the other, or neither. My partner has used the verdier for a long time, we recently started to carry dps. II have not heard them in the same room together and its only so likely this will happen. I have however listened to both quite extensively. Also for the moment I am using the rb250 modified by DPS.

First the tables couldn't be more dissimilar in physical structure. The dps is small in size and footprint, very minimalistic and looks kind of like a line. The verdier is beautiful from an engineering point of view but quite industrial. It is also very big. I know that spousal acceptance is going to be different for the two.

As for the sound, I think they are not wildly dissimilar. Both are very musical with great rhythm. I can't say a huge amount more about this because it is very dependent on the system and the room.

One final note regarding the arms. Willi feels the power supply is as important, and indeed more so, than arm choice. I have just put in the dps3 power supply and it really is quite impressive about how much it improves the sound. Even more solid, with greater substance and authority. Not subtle at all when you switch back and forth (much easier to do than changing arsm).
I hope this is of some help

Gary

Don't take this personally Gary, but I'm always amused when a dealer/manufacturer says something along the lines of "the power supply upgrade makes a real improvement."

I don't understand why they don't just make their design sound as good as possible in the first place. Instead they box up a few hundred bucks worth of bigger transformer, regulators and caps then add a zero on the end of their costs to get to the selling price.

Hi Ebalog

Also... I had it from a good source that Schoeder tonearms really aren't available any longer. Can you shed any light on this? When did the last one you ordered come in? I know someone on the waiting list for more than 16 months with no known "start" date.

My most recent delivery was an arm Frank hand delivered to Docsavage at this year's RMAF in October.

Frank certainly continues to make tonearms, but your friend on the list is not a statistical anomaly (16 month wait). For example, the next two arms I'm awaiting delivery on were ordered in November of 2005.

From what I've seen in the past year, Frank has regained equilibrium - neither falling further behind, nor catching up. While the difficulties that resulted in him falling behind last year appear to be history, we have yet to dig into the backlog to return to the good old days of 4-6 month waiting periods.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Flyinred

I don't take it personally and understand the comment. Like I said I was a long time audio nut before a dealer and I raise my eyebrows a lot too. Fortunately this is not my major (or even minor) source of income (my daytime job is thoracic surgeon), I do it because a lot of interesting gear was unavailable in our region.

As for the better powersupply I would recommed you take a look at the dps website for a more technical explanation - its not my strong point (my partner in the business is much more technically oriented) or drop Willi a note. I would add he is really very passionate on the subject- I think he really believes this to be the case.

From a practical viewpoint what I have done is I am giving the customer the ability to chose. He gets to listen to both and if he doesn't think its worth it, he will stick with the dps 2. The risk to him is zip - he listens in his system and his ears are all that counts. I do understand, by the way, that human nature is such that many will think if something costs more it must be better but I can't prevent that.

It is an interesting thread and I have been cautious about replying to a lot of threads because of the issue of dealers making comments. Again no offense taken and none given

Take care

Gary