EAR 834P + Bent Audio Stepups = greatness?

Hi Mark, some people philosophically dislike stepup transformers.

I was semi-convinced myself, some years ago when I went to a Loesch style front end = FET step up/tube/RIAA/tube as an upgrade from the a lightly modified EAR. From reading here, and elsewhere, it seems that all transistor units are considered current SOTA - yet many folks have recently sold some of the above SOTA units in favor of Doshi's Alaap - which has tubes and a SS fron end.

Although I considerd the Loesch marginally better in all "audiophile" parameters, I missed something I was getting from even the cheap XFs in the EAR. Note that some of what I missed is often referred to as phase artifacts by those who have decided to dislike XFs.

Distortion artifacts or not, I felt I lost some of the gestalt of faked/live sound - if that makes any sense. In other words, as a sometime musician, I know that stereo does not sound like real music - but has a "fake/real" sound of its own that I enjoy on its own merit.

I am looking forward to implementing the S&B stepups in my latest phono pre and compare it to the FET front end again. I think that any lack of current enthusiasm about the S&B stepups is based on the fact that they are no longer available to the DIY'er. If I could get a set of silver ones like Arthur's, at anything like a reasonable price, I would snap them up quickly.

Regards

Mike

Just because it has a FET stage doesn't mean it will sound good or sound the best or even sound better than stepups. There is a lot more to getting a FET gain stage to sound as good as a stepup than just building the circuit. However, if it is done right the benefits of not having to mess with minute changes in loading to get things sounding right and not having an extra set of cables in the mix is very much worth it sonically. And there is no chance of experiencing ringing from the transformers. In reality we have just exchanged one set of problems for another set of problems.

The circuit that the 834 is based on is pretty good. I have not studied the RIAA part in any detail. I'll leave that to others who obsess over that. But if one has the intention of maxing out a phono stage based on that circuit it makes much more sense to me to start from scratch. If you look you can find the circuit online and also some enhancements to the circuit. Why buy the unit, then buy more parts, etc. Why not just do the job right and by-pass starting with a product that was meant to meet a price point?

Thanks. Well, Dan, some folks, such as myself, who are not wealthy, benefit greatly from the opportunity to get a nice sounding preamp in stock from and later incrementally investing in improvements, as finances permit. Plus, I think the EAR 834p has a great, compact form factor and has a classy look, but that's just my opinion. Also, doesn't that Doshi Alaap costs $10K? Does Doshi make a less expensive unit, at $10K is just not feasible for me. I wouldn't expect EAR 834P + a few $ hundred for Mitch Singerman mods and, maybe a $1,200 Bent Audio Steup up to match a $10K preamp. What would the folks on this forum suggest as a comparably priced alternative to the EAR mod / Bent Audio combo? Thank you so much for your help. Mark

Dan you are right, making the FET/417A front end sound great is work - but not that hard. I had it measured and the RIAA cureve is extremely accurate. I'm sure Doshi has plenty to say on the matter, using the tubes he uses - I would assume that he has come up with a very clever implementation to get enough gain with 12AX/AT type tubes. I plan to hardwire the S&B XFs into my next project so an extra set of rcas is not an issue.

Mark, if you are willing to get your hands dirty, I would suggest building directly from Romy's final schematic and then selling your EAR when you are finished and satisfied. Not counting the stepups and NOS tubes, I'd bet that Romy's 834 version costs less than $300 in parts - definately less than $500. And most of that is in the power supply.

Mm2550,

I understand what you are saying about incremental mods. I've done them myself and done them on the 834. The mods do help make it sound better, but not great. IMO, putting the MUs in front of the EAR is like putting a rose between your nose and a piece of Limberger cheese. You may smell a little of the rose, but I guarantee you will still smell the cheese. I'm not saying the EAR stinks, just making an analogy to help explain my point of view. I believe the MUs deserve more than the 834 is capable of.

The discussion here has, to my thinking, morphed a bit into to what extent is modifying the 834P worthwhile. I don't think it is worth modifying the 834P beyond the normal list of mods usually done to those units. If the goal is to go beyond, I suggest starting from scratch or get another phono stage.

What does the Alaap or the Essential have to do with anything in this thread? I never suggested to anyone in this thread that they should go out and buy one of these so I don't know why this is relevant.