Hi Nikola – thanks for making my morning coffee interesting. We all have our sonic preferences in this hobby. I have to confess I am a bass guy. It is important to me. We all know bass will make you understand how important the room is, both from a sonics perspective as well as not irritating your wife/family, neighbors. The technique I use for bass tuning is very simple. I have Quad 57 my midrange reference in one room. Most of the music is in the midrange. The 801’s are in an adjacent room. I tune their bass until I hear everything that is coming from the Quads midrange. The above arrangement requires a larger room split into two pieces.
fwiw and just my opinion - Strategic damping plates are important but a room that has allowed for bass seepage is far more important and effective for bass control at higher spl’s. This however requires a carefully developed understanding with the above mentioned wife/family and neighbors. I think there should also be a separate category for the audiogon forums called Rooms setup / Treatment or something like that. Audigon are you listening. If you can’t make your own panels, get the commercial ones now before they become truly mainstream one day and $50 panels become $500 or $5000 with high end. Sibilance can also be resolved with room tuning. We listen to our rooms. Sorry to digress..
Hi Dover et al
Honestly this 420 can be a real PITA on a pivot arm. Its reputation is justified. I think only Henry and Griffiths found some nirvana with it after much tribulation on the MM thread. There could be others. This speaks volumes IMO to their determination. I have listened to it on a ET2 ET2.5 and pivot arms.
Two things. One real and one not-real (virtual).
First - The 420str is a real physical cartridge. You can touch it and you can feel it. You even bite into it.
Here she is the 420 with her two sisters called 412 and 415
Other than their obvious color differences the other differences seem to be in the shoes the sisters are wearing.
I asked a question a while back on the MM thread because I thought – there are many cartridge “experts” here. I am not a cartridge expert. They will answer my question. No one answered the question. I can’t remember the exact words I used - something like this.
"Looking at the picture how would the very different shape/design of the 420 cantilever/stylus affect the sound and setup requirements over her sisters?"
Since asking that question I have heard the 412 and 420 on an ET2 – Unlike the 412 I found the 420 very linear (sic) in the bass, mid and HF’s. To me the two sisters of the 420 based on their shoes, really do look like sisters themselves – but the 420 is like the odd child, even though it is the top of the line model. Is this starting to sound a little like Cinderella yet?
Now the second part. This is the part that is not real (virtual).
Our hobby is full of gear. All of us piece together a bunch of gear to produce an imaginary state in our rooms. A state that we cannot really see, touch, or smell, but we can hear and feel.
I have had the 420 cartridge on my FR64s and DV505.
I eventually after much work got it to sound ok - good – but only HIFI good. I wasn’t able to get into the music.... . involving me, like the ET2.
The presentation and soundstage of this 420 cartridge on the ET2, is like you're reading a different book, compared to the pivot arms in my room. Sometimes the shoes just fit? After some effort the shoes seemed to fit at first with the pivot arms too – but after some time blisters became evident.
So personally would not bother with the 420 on a pivot arm again. Life is too short.
Thank you Nikola for the inspiration in your last few posts. I have now added Cinderella to my virtual page. She joins Winnie the Pooh and Goldilocks. What a fun hobby :^)
fwiw and just my opinion - Strategic damping plates are important but a room that has allowed for bass seepage is far more important and effective for bass control at higher spl’s. This however requires a carefully developed understanding with the above mentioned wife/family and neighbors. I think there should also be a separate category for the audiogon forums called Rooms setup / Treatment or something like that. Audigon are you listening. If you can’t make your own panels, get the commercial ones now before they become truly mainstream one day and $50 panels become $500 or $5000 with high end. Sibilance can also be resolved with room tuning. We listen to our rooms. Sorry to digress..
Hi Dover et al
Honestly this 420 can be a real PITA on a pivot arm. Its reputation is justified. I think only Henry and Griffiths found some nirvana with it after much tribulation on the MM thread. There could be others. This speaks volumes IMO to their determination. I have listened to it on a ET2 ET2.5 and pivot arms.
Two things. One real and one not-real (virtual).
First - The 420str is a real physical cartridge. You can touch it and you can feel it. You even bite into it.
Here she is the 420 with her two sisters called 412 and 415
Other than their obvious color differences the other differences seem to be in the shoes the sisters are wearing.
I asked a question a while back on the MM thread because I thought – there are many cartridge “experts” here. I am not a cartridge expert. They will answer my question. No one answered the question. I can’t remember the exact words I used - something like this.
"Looking at the picture how would the very different shape/design of the 420 cantilever/stylus affect the sound and setup requirements over her sisters?"
Since asking that question I have heard the 412 and 420 on an ET2 – Unlike the 412 I found the 420 very linear (sic) in the bass, mid and HF’s. To me the two sisters of the 420 based on their shoes, really do look like sisters themselves – but the 420 is like the odd child, even though it is the top of the line model. Is this starting to sound a little like Cinderella yet?
Now the second part. This is the part that is not real (virtual).
Our hobby is full of gear. All of us piece together a bunch of gear to produce an imaginary state in our rooms. A state that we cannot really see, touch, or smell, but we can hear and feel.
I have had the 420 cartridge on my FR64s and DV505.
I eventually after much work got it to sound ok - good – but only HIFI good. I wasn’t able to get into the music.... . involving me, like the ET2.
The presentation and soundstage of this 420 cartridge on the ET2, is like you're reading a different book, compared to the pivot arms in my room. Sometimes the shoes just fit? After some effort the shoes seemed to fit at first with the pivot arms too – but after some time blisters became evident.
So personally would not bother with the 420 on a pivot arm again. Life is too short.
Thank you Nikola for the inspiration in your last few posts. I have now added Cinderella to my virtual page. She joins Winnie the Pooh and Goldilocks. What a fun hobby :^)