Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?

Well, I just drove 120 miles roundtrip and had a GREAT time with AVGURU. Thanks for the hospitality and great tunes. Now, where should I start. This was a real eye opening experience. I brought both the APL 3910, and the Exemplar 3910 with me. The Apl still needs about 150 hours to break in, the Exemplar was just about done. AVGURU removed his VCR and I slid the Exemplar into its place. He was trying to find the right intercennects, powercord ect. I told him, it really does not matter, cause when I compared the DV-50 I was comparing with lesser units. AVGURU hooked up the Exemplar, put a cd into the DV-50, and we listened for a couple of minutes. I told AVGURU that it sounded 1 dimensional, like there was a vail over the music. He looked at me like I was nutz. I told him to use the cheapest interconnects, and powercord, cause IMHO I did not think there was any way in hell that my players could not sound any better than the DV-50. Remember, I have been thru this exercise before, even with the AA Capitole II, and MF tri vista. In my mind, AVGURU was about to be BLOWN away, BLOWN up, In another atmosphere, another zone completely. AVGURU has a eautiful setup, but, it sounded like radioshack to me, not high fidelity. I know, these are strong words. I have great respect for B&W speakers, and am on a mission to find the BEST digital on the planet, for home use and enjoyment. I will end with saying this, and wait until AVGURU chimes in. It took less than a minute to astonish AVGURU with the quality of these fabulous modded machines.

Is this just me bragging?

Did I say I told you so?

Am I having fun here?

NO, YES, YES

chime in buddy, and keep smilin

BTW, Thanks AVGURU for helping me make up my mind on these 2 extraordinary machines, please do not let the cat out of the bag, suspense is just too much fun.

Well, fellow audiophiles..its been a rough day today. Rough because my trusty Esoteric DV-50 did not fare as well as I would have hoped against either modded Denon 3910...the Exemplar and the APL.

Before I go into details about the test results...let me just say that the majority of audiophiles are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to buying audio equipment. First of all, most of us (due to a lack of time and access) will only audition a very small fraction of what's out there before we make our buying decision. Secondly, we are heavily influenced by reviews..whether we want to admit it or not. Finally, the mfg's love to get us excited with their technical marketing talk regarding specifications, measurements, new technology, the latest chips/dac sets and all the R&D they've put into their latest model.

Its this last area which really bothers me because over the years I felt like I've built up enough technical knowledge to be able to decipher between what improvments/features are just "bells and whistles" and which ones are really important. For example, I've been taught (or led to believe) over the years that a superior transport, superior build quality (in terms of limiting chasis vibration and resonances)and upsampling means a lot in terms of performance.

The DV-50 transport (while not their famed VRDS one) is still clearly superior to the off the shelf one denon uses (either Pioneer or Philips). The 3910's build quality, while decent, is nowhere on the level of the DV-50's. Finally the DV-50 upsamples to some ungodly frequency rate (1,700) while the Denon (even with the mods) doesn't upsample at all.

Additionally, I've never been enamored with DIY products or professional modders. My attitude has always been "why waste time modding a cheaply built unit when you can just buy a high quality player from the get-go?" Also, how can a modder improve on a product that a company like TEAC-ESOTERIC (known for their formidible engineering prowess and enormous R&D budget)spent considerable time designing and developing? So my logical conclusion was that even with mods the 3910 can't possibly come close to the performance of the DV-50? Makes sense, right? WRONG!! DEAD WRONG!! In fact, both units (APL & Exemplar) actually surpase (rather handily I might add) the performance of the DV-50. Let's get to the test results.

The DV-50 was connected to my Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro balanced. The APL and Exemplar modded Denons were connected via their analog out RCA's. Interconnects used were Nirvanna SX Ltds and AZ Matrix reference II's. Power cords were stock. No line conditioners were used.

Let me first say that the choice of interconnects used wouldn't have mattered one bit! I could have used a $400 interconnect on the Denon units and a $2,000 interconnect on the DV-50 and the Denon's still would have won. That's because the sonic characteristics and improvements with the Denon's are unique to the player..not the accessories. That was very obvious. But for those of you who want to know I did use Nirvanna's on both players during my first round of tests.

From the first few notes played by either unit (Exemplar or APL) the differences were readily discernable and not small in magnitude. The Denon's sound was airy with more space between instruments and a wider soundstage. There was also more soundstage depth. More importantly, the Denon's consistently achieved a two dimensional and in some cases three dimensional soundstage. The DV-50 was always a one dimensional sound. With the Denons, the soundstage was properly layered from front to back...with vocals out front and guitars, keyboards, bass and drums all occupying their own separate and distinct layers one behind the other. With the DV 50, sometimes the drums and other instruments would try to share the front stage with the vocalist.

Detail retrieval (at least to my ears) was about the same. In compariosn to the Exemplar, the DV 50 had more bass slam lsam and weight but the Exemplar had better definition. I've always thought the DV 50 was a little heavy handed in the way it reproduces bass so the Exemplar was a nice change. The APL Denon had equal slam and impact in the bass but its texture was decidely softer, whic led to a more analog sound.

Speaking of analog, both Denon's had a slightly warmer sound but this did not come at the expense of a loss of transparency or high end extension..both of which are normal trade-offs for warmth. In fact, both units had a more extended and definitely less digital high's than the DV-50. Additionally, I would say both units seem to have a small degree of added transparency over the DV-50 because the backgrounds were quieter (the old adage "less is more" definitely applies here). I don't know if this means the noise floor of the Denon's were lower than the DV-50, but it seemed you can hear deeper into the soundstage with the Denon's than the Esoteric.

Turning to SACD (we only evaluated 2 channel)the magnitude of the performance differences were even larger with the Denon's easily besting the DV-50 in all of the above areas including detail. Some of SACD the discs we listened to on the Denon's actually sounded very close to vinyl.

To summarize, despite all of the individual sonic improvments brought forth by the Modded Denon's, it was the sum of all of these characterisitics that led to the most satisfying listening session I've ever had in my music room. The biggest difference was the two and three diminsionality that I spoke of earlier. The Denon's were just consistently more involving, engaging and musical. I also noted that I was tapping my foot and nodding my head more (even to ballads) than I was with the DV-50. There seemed to be added PRAT and I'm not astute enough to pinpoint why...it just had better rhythm and pace.

I'm not going to get into a discussion as to which modded Denon (the Exemplar or APL) was the better unit. But I will unequivocally tell you that both units are superior to the DV 50 in redbook and SACD. It pains me to say that but it is the truth.

The DV 50 is still a great unit and if you read the list of other high end players that it beat in my AB tests (part of my earlier thread) you will see that it is in a league of its own. However, if you are unwilling to accept any compromises and hope to achieve the performance levels of players twice the price of the DV 50 then auditioning either modded Denon is a great place to start!

AVGURU

You two deserve a medal for swiftly making this comparison a reality. Before reading this, I had just finished boxing up the McCormack UDP-1 for return (see details in nearby thread). Your "shoot-out" reinforces my decision to continue to search for the most musically involving machine, which will likely lead to "extreme-makeover" for the Denon 3910 I'm keeping.

Very Intriguing AVGURU! Do you have a feel on how the modified Denons may compare to the Esoteric X-01? What is the cost of these modified Denon?

If you guys want to know about the mods from John Tucker (Exemplar), or Alex Paychev (APL HiFi) I probably have the most critical experience of anyone in the country, cause I put my money where my EARS are. I have compared in home to many HIGH end high dollar players, and have the in home experience others just talk about. Plus I am will to learn, and take the time for comparison. In fact, this just helps me, and us in MY journey to find the BEST digital source, REGUARDLESS of price. Guys, I would spent up to 20k on the best source, You just gotta proove it to me. I have listened to Meitner, DCS/Elgar, ect, and have not felt they have been better than what I have. Plus they are limited in formats. I am willing to play this game some more for you guys with the High Dollar stuff. Please, help lead me to audio heaven(digital wise)

AVGURU, thanks for the honest assesment of what we experienced together, and not taking my Thunder away from me. Remember, when you P/U the Higher end Esoteric, we need to compare too, I am lookin forward to your and my expressions when we do this.

Have fun in your audio journeys my friends and If you wanna talk, email me your #'s.

Steve Smilin