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Getting into audio for around 3500$...problems...

I recently made a jump from a pair of NHT SuperTwos powered by a Denon 1801 receiver and a Pioneer Elite DVC36 DVD player
to
A set of Tyler Ref monitors (1325$)
CAL CL15 cd player (750$)
Rogue Magnum 88 amp (1325$) direct from the cd player, and tried running it though the Denon receiver.
Wiring = shotgun biwire from SignalCable, JPS ultra conductor interconnects

In any case, the jump from my 400$ NHT SuperTwo speakers to the Tylers was huge and well worth the price difference. However the change of the amp and cd player for 1900$ has provided only a marginal improvement, slightly more detail, warmth, soundstage. I was expecting as big a jump as the speaker change...but it wasn't there.

Based on what I've experienced so far I'm leaning towards
selling the amp, cd player and speakers and taking that 3200$ and upgrading the speakers which would run off the denon receiver and the dvd player.
Possibly:
SF Electa Amator II
Merlin VSMs
Audio Physics Virgo 2 or 3's
Aerial Acoustics 10t's
Dyn Countour 3.3's
Vienna Acoustics Beethovens

How many people think I'm smoking crack? *LOL*
After all the research and auditioning I did I was sooo sure I'd be able to hear a BIGGER difference. I suppose in my auditions from now on I should make sure to get at home demos!

What are peoples opinions on me just changing speakers like this? Do you think I'll get the sonic improvement I'm looking for? or do you think going from a 1300$ set of tylers to a 3300$ish set of speakers will only provide a minimal increase in sound quality.

Of course in a year or two I'm sure I'll have more funds and I may try out an integrated with whatever setup I'm running at that point...

and yes, I've tried repositioning my speakers a bunch of times, and I've a/b'ed about a zillion times, yes everything is fully broken in, the room is about 14x18, speakers are about 2ft from back wall, 6ft apart from each other, and I sit about 7 ft from the speakers
geoffgarcia
viggen
838 posts
 
I think whatever you upgrade first will always offer you the highest in returns for your investment regardless of it being the speaker or the amp. I am not speaking in terms of diminishing returns. Rather, the first swapped component will always have the most drastic change in sound quality compared to what you have been used to.

So, I will assume had you swapped out the amp first before your got new speakers, you might claim your speakers are very high on returns on investment and not the amp. But, maybe upgrading amps just isn't very high ROI in your system...
newbee
4,767 posts
 
FWIW if I were you I would revisit your expectations before you make any changes at all! Changes in electronic's are endlessly more subtle than for speakers. Lots of folks can hardly tell the difference. Even folks with very experienced ears argue about the effect of tweeks. All of that said, if you are having a problem now its with matching and the most likely area is between the CDP and the Amp. You might search the archives for comments on passive pre amps. The same problems that surround their use are the same things as may be causing your present problems, that is cable lengths, impedence matching, gain etc. You may need an active pre amp to get what you want to hear. Probably the last thing you want to do is buy high end speakers and try to drive them with mediocre electronics - they are all so revealing that all they will do is emphasize the failings of your electronics. But, if you MUST make a change now, I'd buy that Plinus 8150 Intergrated amp and a good powered sub woofer. That would keep you for a few years.
judit
217 posts
 
It might be useful to examine how and why you made the purchases you did before you swap anything else into your system.

1. If you heard these things all together in a demo system and liked them, then your problem is reproducing this sound in your own listening room and set up.

2. The performance of the Denon receiver can be easily surpassed. Why weren't you able to? Are you sure that the Denon is really up to delivering performance from more expensive speakers?

3. Don't be drawn in by the argument that running straight from a CDP to an amp will always give superior sound. T'aint so, especially at this price point.
eldulcesol
197 posts
 
Geoff, I was in the same situation as you are in and I was able to fix it very easily. I have a HKAVR5 with a Sony dvd player and Kinima speakers all around. Great for movies, crappy for music. I listened to music 90% of the time, so I had to make a few changes. Bought an Audio Aero prima amp with a pre out and a AA cdp. To put this system together, I have the cdp to the integrated amp with the front speakers from the amp. The pre-out from the amp to the cd input of the AVR5. Now I can control the sub with set volume on the AVR5 and the amp controls volume to the front speakers and the input to the AVR5 for the sub.
Sounds confusing, but it works. I take it you like movies also. Do the opposite. Front pre-out of AVR to an input of the integrated amp. Tweak the volumes and or input levels and you are set. When you do this, the avr controls the input to the integrated, center and rear channel and sub while the amp powers the fronts.
Sum it up, keep your 1801 and dvd player, if you like your cdp, fine, Audio Aero Prima's are really nice and get youself an integrated amp with a pre out and some Van Den Hul power cords for the amp and cdp. I had this set up for about a year now, no complaints from me.
Any questions, post or e-mail me. Good Luck.
kthomas
911 posts
 
I'm not familiar with the Rogue, but the difference between a cheap receiver, an okay amp and an excellent amp feeding nice speakers should be readily apparent. I agree with the advice that you should be looking for upgrades that offer immediate, almost jaw-dropping differences, not tweaks. I won't speculate why you didn't hear a difference between the Denon and the Rogue, but the difference I heard instantly between a higher-end Denon receiver and a nice multi-channel amp was big enough that it took one minute of a/b testing to say I'm not going back.

The Dynaudio Contour 3.3's are great speakers, but they'll be using about 3% of their potential driven by the Denon. If you think you're going to be able to buy a $2000 used amp in a year or so, it may be a good buy, but I'd buy something easier to drive if you're going to be sticking with the Denon for any period of time.
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