2. amps-preamps
  3. 1261957803

Go with a tube preamp or not?

Hello everyone, I am interested in purchasing a tube preamp for my system. I am considering replacing the Classe CP 60 I am currently using and am looking for recommendations. The rest of my system is a Denon 3910 with Upgrade Company signature mods, a pair of Aragon Palladium 2 monos also upgraded by Upgrade Company, a pair of Intuitive Design Summits with Path stands and a total of 6 Stillpoints per side. I use a Velodyne DD12 to augment the low end. Cabling is mostly Ridge Street Audio with one pair of Jungson Golden Dragons used between the pre and power amps. the room is about 13.5 by 17.5 with 8 foot ceilings. I listen to a wide range of music including pop, classic rock, heavy metal, contemporary jazz, blues, and funk. Normal listening volume is 80 to 85 db's but occasionally will listen in the range of 90 to 95 db's if the mood strikes me.

I recently got to hear another member's system that has the Summits and uses a very nice tube preamp. I would like to see if I could get some of that tube sound in my system. I am not looking to drastically change the sound of my system, rather just add a touch of warmth. I have no experience with tube gear, so I am looking for help. I have looked at past threads, but am not finding specific enough info.

There are a couple of requirements that I am looking for and a couple of others that would be nice but are not mandatory. First, I want the unit to be remote controlled. It needs to have both balanced and single ended outputs that are active at all times. (My amps are balanced and I am not looking to change them at this time. The amps also have a 44 kohm input impedance.) Home theater pass thru would be nice, but is not mandatory. Same thing for phono capabilities. I am looking in the $1500 range used but could go as high as $2k if the right deal came along. I am not going above the 2k mark. I would need to sell the Classe pre first.

I have looked a little, and offerings from BAT, Audio Research and Conrad Johnson have all gotten my interest. I am sure there are plenty of others that I haven't mentioned. What I don't want to lose that the Classe does well is pacing and dynamic contrast. Any input is appreciated.
csmgolf
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Hello Rleff, to be honest, I've never heard the LS16 mk II. I have heard the LS16 mk I in my friends system with Krell amp and Dynaudio Contour 3.4 speakers and was pretty impressed. Overall though, I was not much of a fan of the older ARC preamps before the ARC Ref 3, which is still the best preamp I have ever owned. Yes, I know it cost a lot more, but IMHO ARC made a big jump with that series. Personally, with the older tube preamps, I prefer the VAC, BAT and Cary, though not necessarily in that order.

As for the 6H30 tube, it is very rugged and reliable, but there is not much to do in the way of tube rolling. This may be a good thing for someone just changing over from SS preamps though, as tube rolling can be time consuming and expensive. Yes, they do make what are called NOS 6H30 tubes, from the 80's and 90's, but IMHO the difference is not worth some of the ridiculous prices that I've seen being charged for them ($200-$300/tube). I've seen 6DJ8 variant's, 12AX7's and 12AU7's also selling for crazy prices, but IME I've heard more differences between these NOS tubes and current stock than I have between NOS 6H30's and current stock.

As a general rule (of course there are exceptions), I would say the 6H30 is rugged, reliable, powerful and dynamic. The old scholl preamp tubes (6DJ8, 12AX7, 12AU7) tend to have less of the above traits, but have better air, resolution and articulation, again IMHO, IMS.

Cheers,
John
rleff
1,065 posts
 
Thanks John for some good feedback;I saw you listed the 12ax7 and 12au7;my amps have 6189 and 12ax7 in them;would your comments also apply when these are used in the amps?
I have been a tube owner for several years but never really played with rolling except for output tubes as these amps will autobias el34,6550 and kt88's so I am familiar with them but not the input tubes listed.
Any other tube owners chim if you have some opinion as well.
Csmgolf- if you think I am highjacking the thread let me know and I will start one of my own.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Rleff, I can't say that I am familiar with your amp, but looking it up online, it uses (2) 12AU7's and (1) 12AX7. I assume that the 12AU7's are in the driver stage, the single 12AX7 may be a phase splitter. I'm not sure here, I know my amp uses (4) KT88 power tubes and (4) 12AU7's in the driver stage. IME, rolling the preamp tubes makes the biggest difference in sound (assuming 6DJ8/12AU7/12AX7). Rolling power tubes, driver tubes, and 6H30 preamp tubes can make a difference, but it is not nearly as big a difference as I hear between Amperex/ Mullard/ Siemens/ Telefunkens etc in the 6DJ8/12AU7/12AX7 categories.

Once more, that is just my opinion, from what I have heard in my system and a couple others. I would think you would hear the most difference rolling between types of power tubes in your amp, since it can handle KT 88, EL 34, or 6550. It should be fun to compare some nice KT88's with some good EL 34's.

Cheers,
John
rleff
1,065 posts
 
John-thanks I am interested in that el34 tube as well;any types you would recommend?I have never heard a el34 tube based amp.
I have rolled some kt88's with the 6550's that came with the amp so far;in my cary slam 100's I perferred kt88's but in this amp I seem to lean toward the 6550's instead.
wa6itd
1 posts
 
I strongly recommend Audio Research. You might be able to find a used LS17 in your price range, or the LS16 Mark II; both excellent. I normally do not recommend used stuff, but Audio Research preamps are so reliable that you do not need to worry about buying a used one.
I have the LS26 now, which is $6000, but I used to have the LS16 Mark II, and it is probably the best bang for the buck at your price level.
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