Has anyone had experience with the Schroeder Arm

Dear friends: First than all, excuse me Sirspeedy but I have to answer to these people, because they think that this forum belong to them and this is very far from true.
I agree with Cello an Audio999 that for any one we need a few minutes to know the character of an item, but this only tell us that that item sound different: we need a lot more time to understand that differences and to know if that differences are near or far from the real music, this is the point for to do any judgment. I know that maybe you can't understand these beacuse you are not really experienced ( it does not matters if you think you are. Your answers in this forum told us that you aren't )), that's why you always have trouble with my answers. I think that you are mere audiophiles not a music lovers and that is a big difference. When you can convert to music lovers then you can understand everything about, till to now you are far from that: your first step to that target is to listen at least 30 hours each month of live music, when you do this I can tell you the others steps for you can get the target. Here some examples of your lacking experience: Doug ask for advise for to buy a tonearm and he don't know what to choose between a Moerch DP6 or an Origin live, at that time one of the people, that I really respet, TWL and other ones told him that Moerch was the choose and Doug do a big mistake and goes for the Origin Live ( Doug if you were choose the Moerch you nerver have to buy the Triplanar ). Audio999 ask for advise because he don't know if his Colibri can match with his JMW10 tonearm. Doug told us that he and a friend of him can hear in him system 20hz and down frecuencies in him BW loudspeakers that can't goes down to 20hz ( please read this Doug answer. Incredible. ) These are only three examples, but all of you in this forum can read every single answers of all these " experienced " guys and you can find many more examples on each one.
Cello told me that I'm in every thread, let me see: Doug has more that 300 answers ( he is the water of all glasses ), Audio999 more than 70, Raul 50, Cello like 30, ...etc.
I almost always try to give an answer that can help to the man that put the thread. All these guys do many things but to help or do little to help, let me explain: in the thread " VPI motor upgrade kit " Doug put an answer that do nothing for the man that put the thread: " I don't have the kit, but VPI promise to send me...", here is incredible he put an answer in something that he don't have and don't know it ( that's why I told that Doug try to be the water of all glasses. ). In the " transformer stepup size " thread, Doug instead to give an answer he goes against my answers and do nothing for Divo. In " graham and shelter matching " any one can read the answer from Jphii: nothing to see with the thread. In " EMC II CD ", Cello give an answer that does not have to see with the Goone thread.
All these are only a few examples of these people: as a rule they take any thread for them and they start severals threads with their answers.
I know that my answers does not like to these people and I can understand why, they are in other " league ": look to Doug, for example, more than 300 answers, with a limited experience and a very limited audio system: how can he help us? how can we trust on him? ( many answers of Doug are a repetitions of other experienced people ).
I understand that this is a open forum, so you have to read about my answers like it or not.
I recommended to you that open your mind and that try to learn that outside your closed world is to much to learn about. I respect your point of veiw, maybe I don't agree ( always ) with you but I ask to all of you guys that respect my point of view and if you don't agree with my answer then probe that I'm wrong and that you are the " Bible ": don't talk put the arguments to probe it, in this way everybody can learn ( including me, of course. ).
Be happy, be a better human been every day: LEARN, always learn. The life is full of trade-offs, take the best of it.
Best wishes for all of you and remember: always enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul,

Since you have never asked,you are the king.
I respect your input,but not your attitude which is attacking/questioning Doug's answers.

Again this is the original question:

~In a high res setup has anyone been able to "COMPARE" this arm to the top pivoting competition.~

Doug had been directly comparing them side by side and this is the main point,it doesn't matter he is right or wrong according to you,me,or others.

Have you compared them directly side by side?

I'm definately lacked experienced with analog matching,set-up,etc,but it doesn't make me blind to hear each of their differences and characters.

I'll always learn,how about you?

Raul,
I was with Cello and Doug when we compared the Schroder and completely agree with what Doug said. Yup, all of us that were there could be full of it. But how could you possibly know? You were not there. You have no idea of what we did or did not hear.
Chris

Hi everyone, especially Thomas Heisig and Raul,
Interesting thread, - and a controversy that I would normally stay weel clear from since there is nothing to gain when these exchanges take on too much of a personal character.
Nevertheless let me add a few remarks on some points raised earlier.
Thomas, I think you should explain which Schröder model you had been listening to, the first generation of the entry level version, not the Reference model. Even the Graham 2.0 cost three times the price in Germany then. The Myabi used in this comparison was not exactly a good match for this particular arm. And, high frequency resolution, micro and macro dynamics and "ease" of reproduction(aka lack of resonances) are highly dependent on proper setup. Any comparison between arms will first and foremost depend upon the person who set up the arms. Another point is the mating of arms to turntables, or rather the mounting bases(and their damping characteristics. Put a Graham arm(a good product for shure) on a metal armboard it will sound subjectively "faster" compared to the same arm and table equipped with an acrylic armboard.
What people perceive as better "attack" is mostly the difference in the resonance spectrum(accentuating higher frequency peaks)excited by the cart tracking the grooves.
My arms do not depend upon the dissipation of energy in the armboard as most others(practically all unipivot arms) do. Listen to a Reference arm with any cart with your ear close to the groove and the volume down. Ever heard less "needle talk"? Needle talk is nothing but parts of the cart and arm getting excited and emmiting audible proof of structural resonances. When some people call the sound of my arms "relaxed" I take it as a compliment. Just like real music the actual sound(if unampified) isn´t tiring, but can be VERY dynamic, and yes, I do attend concerts often(Berlin is hard to beat inthat respect). Slow sound when using one of my arms? Maybe it´s time to look for a better table then..
A Rega arm is no equal to my arm. As terrific a bargain it may be, the multiple solder connections in the wiring alone are prohibitiv of true first rate resolution.
All other pivoted arms have friction(or, more importantly "stiction" prone bearings, only the Well Tempered Arm is a zero friction design, that is if it didn´t have to rely on silicon fluid for damping and resistance against deflection. It´s antiskating compensation is flawed though(topic for another thread...).
The system of the customer with the two Ref.arms is one best characterized by the term "construction site". Frequently changed components, mediocre speakers, the setup is, well, less than optimal. Certainly no base to judge the quality of a single component.
Raul, have you had the chance to do any comparison between a Graham, Triplanar or Vector arm with a Reference? Until that has happened, it will be understandable that you get hammered for your well thought out but somewhat "the principal speaks to his pupils"-sounding remarks.
Tonearms do have a sonic signature, one that can be influenced by the choice of mounting board but is never disappearing entirely.
Music reproduction, the perception of quality is such a personal thing that rarely if ever will two people only(let alone half a dozen) agree on the virtues of a system entirely. But if more people than not agree on certain qualities that makes listening to music more enjoyable for them, then so be it.
Oh, and Thomas,-one last word about pricing. If you think anyone could replicate these arms for cheap, -HAHAHA.. you´d be surprised how many difficulties they´d encouter. Not to mention the cost of patenting, fees, hours spent on couseling potential customers and the share of dealers /distributors. Try it and you´ll look for another job soon.
Anyway, no hard feelings guys..
Cheerio,

Frank Schröder

Hi one more time,
One thing I forgot. The Reference arm is often equipped with a high purity, very thin solidcore wiring that has a higher series resistance that most wires. This will result in a slightly lower output which needs to be compensated for when doing a comparison. Otherwise the competitior might sound more "exciting" when used with the same cart.

Greetings from Berlin,

Frank