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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman
tyray
677 posts
 
What I don’t understand is why do people on this site always verbally attack Duke for just being a businessman, entrepreneur and fellow Agon poster?

You don’t have to try, buy or use the swarm, but all the keyboard internet negativity is not warranted and shows some lack of civility.

What ever happened to just having discussions amongst adults who enjoy this hobby? You don’t have to have the swarm or even like the swarm, but to attack Duke for trying to make a living everytime this subject comes up? Is nothing more but and act of hiding behind your moniker cowardice.

I know some posters here can be abrasive, but sometimes it just takes the bigger man to be just that. The bigger man. Don’t attack Duke on account of or for the sake of others.

I was really hoping that there maybe some sort of down to earth shootout? Or are you guys just gonna flap your gums at Duke? Some of you guys take the fun out of every subwoofer thread every time the words swarm or subwoofer is brought up.

I like to bring something positive to this thread and congratulate Duke on his hard work to be an engineer, salesman, tech, phone person and everything else it takes to run a business. 

And everytime the swarm is brought up here in Agon I do see new customers that have bought your swarm and report their experiences back to us here on Agon.


millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
What I like about the above quotes, mitch2 took the time to find them, read them, think enough to understand what might be of particular value, then cut and paste here with a link. 

Sweet.
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,078 posts
 
And for perhaps only the bass players atwixt us ( Duke and me and ? )’perhaps we can also agree there is more to world class bass than flat frequency response ?

and Duke, IF I haven’t said it enough, congrats dude !!!!!
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,078 posts
 
And has anybody done a swarm with Longbow ? Hint Duke that might be a way to bring more into the fold...
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,973 posts
 
The idea that only swarms can sound good, or are the ideal fix for any possible ailment your system has is just not supported by evidence.
atmasphere
I do not believe anyone here is making that claim ...
But that is exactly the claim that some have made:
millercarbon
Surely no one with the room, who takes the time to compare, would ever choose anything else. No one has. No one ever will. The difference is so night and day that Duke had one customer with a $30k subwoofer budget decide to buy the Swarm. Not even a $30k sub can match a $3k Swarm.
@cleeds I think if you reread these comments above you will see that I was correct. You see Erik's comment which opens- now compare that to Millercarbon, you see that the latter says its *better* (in his own words) and that if able to compare, people would choose it, but that does not negate my comment in response to Erik's comment. Now I've been often accused of being very specific, but I also spent a lot of time in English writing courses in college. Perhaps that is part of why I am so specific, but what seems to be agreed by all is that one sub can sound excellent if set up correctly, but if a DBA is set up its a lot easier to get it to sound right and that it might even sound better than 'excellent'. 'Excellent' and 'best' are two different things and I've not seen this conversation derail down that rabbit hole. Yet.
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