Herron VTSP-3A

Great thread guys. I just want to weigh in on my brief experience with the VTPH-2. I bought it directly from Keith in December as I have no dealer anywhere nearby. I am happy to echo all comments already made on his outstanding customer service. I had mentioned to him that I had a cache of RCA 12AX7s and really wanted to try tube rolling. He was very tolerant of the idea, not trying to talk me out of it in the least. "Tolerant" would be the operative term, given the effort for which he is famously known for putting into his choice of tubes. I originally favored the version using 4X12AX7s (69dB gain) and in the course of our discussions, he inquired as to my preamp's input impedance. Learning that I had a relatively low 20K impedance, he gently implied that the 64dB gain version, using 2X12AX7s, would be a better match, though either would be fine and he was happy to provide whichever version I preferred. I told him that I wanted to hear his best effort, so took delivery on the 64dB version.

The VTPH-2 has totally transformed my audio experience, which is saying a lot for one who has been in this hobby for 40 years. There have been many incremental improvements (and a few mis-steps) over the years but I can't think of any that has been so significant. Vinyl has taken on a lifelike quality that at first was disorienting. The experience is so engaging that I find it hard to shut things down to turn in for the night. It has all been said above but for me the music is just so "right". Like violin above, I spent many years playing the violin in orchestras and chamber groups so have a very firm aural impression of how acoustic instruments sound. Keith simply gets it down completely. If I could single out one attribute, it might be in the area of bass. In a system with which I was already quite happy, I frequently find myself looking up at the speakers dumbfounded at how solid and tuneful a bass line is that had always previously been a nondescript part of the musical fabric. It is never overbearing or out of proportion, it's just right and often it makes more sense to the musical line as a whole. I can't justify changing preamps right now, but I am giving it serious thought for the future. BTW, I have rolled in some vintage tubes and do think that the sound is marginally sweeter. It doesn't seem to be a large enough difference to recommend going out and acquiring NOS tubes, but it seems to be a nice diversion for one who already has the tubes at hand.

Hi Kclone,

As I stated earlier, I am running Keith's M-150's along with the VTSP-2 right now, the preamp being a very recent acquisition and the M-150's being in the system for about the past 2 years. I bought them, without any audition, on a recommendation of an audiophile buddy whose ears I really trust.

To make a long story short, I really like these amps. Again, they are vastly underrated in the audiophile community. No, they won't win any awards for beauty, but they have it where it counts. I have compared them to a Spectron Musician 3 Mk II, Pass 350.5, McCormack DNA-500, and Clayton M-100 monoblocks. The Herrons came out ahead of them all, some by a wide margin, some a little. The one knock on the Herrons is the touch of leanness in the low end that I believe may be due to a limitation in current output (but I may be wrong here).

The only amps I have owned that bettered the Herrons were Atma-Sphere MA2 Mk2.3 monoblocks being driven with an AS MP1 Mk2 preamp. This really isn't a very fair comparison considering the price difference however.

What the Herron amps in my system are natural timbres, lack of grain, great space around instruments, and very good micro/macrodynamics. They are one of the few SS amps I have heard that make strings sound like strings, very important to me as I listen to a fair amount of classical music. If you like tube amps, you might want to give these a try as they have just a hint of tube magic in them as well. This is not to say that they "sound like tube amps."

They certainly did sound better in all ways being matched with the Herron preamp. I won't be selling them anytime soon. They can be had for a song right now also on the 'Gon. I haven't had a single problem with mine in the 2 years I've had them either. Add to that Keith's great customer service. What more could you want?

Bill

Just to amplify Bill's assessment of the Herron amps - they are WAY WAY underrated in the audiophile community. Terrific amps and highly synergistic with the preamps.

I think the disregard for the Herron amps is partly that few have actually heard them, and largely because when the M150s were first produced a review pair or two with incorrectly set bias that got away from Keith prematurely - there was a "meh" review in Stereophile and people didn't read subsequent reviews in other publications which praised the amps. The take was: terrific preamps. (BTW, I've never seen a review of the newer amps other than lavish praise at audio shows and would love for someone to point one out to me. To read reviews you'd think all Herron Audio makes are preamps and phono stages.)

My M150s sounded to me like Keith took the best attributes of ss amps and combined them with many of the virtues of tubed amps. The 150s themselves (and I would assume the M1s are similar to the 150s) don't have an obvious sonic signature per se - a GOOD thing in my estimation (being neutral ought not to be a fault!). But it can render the Herron amps a bit difficult to discuss without a simple handle to hang onto them.

When people would ask me what the amps sounded like I'd always respond that "they sound like music"...which wasn't an exaggeration but perhaps not terribly instructive to someone who hasn't heard them.

The 150s were harmonically accurate, grain free, very natural sounding amps that let you hear the "gestalt" of the music playing through them - they got out of the way. I didn't notice the amps, I was just loving the glorious music. (My M150s were paired with the Herron VTSP-1-166a)

However, so many people don't even know what non-amplified "natural" music even sounds like they have no reference for this and thus tend to think there must be something lacking in an amp praised as "neutral". And indeed, some listeners prefer a warmish, non-neutral sound...which is OK but not what Herron gear is about. The M-150s are also bi-polar amps, and many of that ilk can sound lean or cool. The M150s don't (and I assume neither do the M1s) but history was against them.

So what DO they sound like? I still can't precisely describe them but the M150s are one of the few ss state amps I've heard that have the "ease" and "flow" one finds in tubed amps, plus the harmonic accuracy that is so pleasing in tube gear. They display the richness of real instruments, if it's there in the recording, yet they are NOT euphonic, warmish or fuzzy, as many so called tube-like ss amps are. Neither are they lean or cool. They don't add - they don't subtract.

I've heard them with Alons (Circes and Vs) and Audio Physic Avanti IIIs and the bass was prodigious - not exaggerated, as alas some define "good" bass. These are current hungry speakers but not terribbly diffucult loads. (Keith once told me he did final voicings of the M150s on his Circes, which may account for much.)

I have a friend who bi-amped his Pro-Ac Response 3.8s, which are a bit tougher to drive than the above speakers, with 2 pairs of the 150Ms, ditching much more expensive (and highly praised) Clayton and Rowland amps. The Pro-Acs sound amazing with the Herrons and I would suggest that if your bass is a hair on the lean side you consider doing this. It may not be an issue with the M1s, and talking with Keith probably the best bet for any questions. If you aren't using a Herron preamp, then I would look not to the amps but to your pre. I simply can't imagine bass lacking with either the Herron pre VTPH2/VTPH-3a and M150 amp combinations.

Bottom line - the M150s are one of the great bargains in high end audio. Highly recommended! I wish I still owned them!!

(FYI, I'm not a violinist, but I've played keyboards and organ for years, sang in chamber, symphonic and church choirs - even played briefly in a rock band in college. I don't have golden ears but I do have a fairly good idea of what music in the real world sounds like...again, I understand some people aren't terribly interested in "realistic" sounding music reproduction, but for those of us that are, the Herron gear is a bargain.)

Bill & Rackon: Great descriptions of the sound of Herron gear, and very accurate IMO. Disclosure: I retail Herron equipment, Departure Audio.
I would like to reiterate a point I made earlier in this thread: In addition to the great sonics, the Herron designs are extremely flexible with a very intelligent feature set, great ergonomics, exceptional reliability and excellent after-sale support. In my experience, these things are very important for long-term satisfaction, and not always present in all high performance audio equipment.
Herron components are not flashy, but the really important stuff is more than accounted for.
I am using the VTSP3a and M1's to drive various Canton and Green Mountain Audio speaker models. The Herron gear brings out the best in whatever it is linked to. I have'nt found a combination of speakers, source components, cables, etc. that the Herron gear did not play well with and assert its many virtues. I also agree that there is a nice synergy between the VTSP pre and the M1 amps (I have found this to be true with most front end gear and generally advise people to stay with one manufacturers electronics, where possible).
I characterize the Herron sound as smooth, natural, refined, grain-free and non fatiguing. IMO, Herron has some similarity to Blue Circle Audio equipment, which, surprise, I also sell. There are differences, but both are well designed, well made, natural/neutral/musical sounding, and, most importantly, very satisfying over the long term.

I bi amp using four M1's. The power amps do what good power amps supposed to do (very well). They just do their job day in day out. They don't get in the way of the music they just amplify. No drama!

With the updated SP3a. I was using some rather cheap and nasty interconnects with my SP3 and did not notice anything wrong with them. However the 3a is much more revealing so, in order to subdue some harshness when I updated, I updated the interconnects as well. Fixed things up nicely, thank you very much!