Holographic imaging


Hi folks, is the so called holographic imaging with many tube amplifiers an artifact? With solid state one only hears "holographic imaging" if that is in the recording, but with many tube amps you can hear it all the time. So solid state fails in this department? Or are those tube amps not telling the truth?

Chris
dazzdax
It is the CHANGE in volume that affects the pitch

Since you make no mention of frequency (group delay). I take this to mean that you suspect that the absolute signal level changes the propagation delay in the circuit. This is a non-linearity that should cause IMD distortion and it should be measureable. (Signal level or amplitude is modulating the frequency of output - creating new frequencies. For example a cymbal high frequency sound riding on top of a large oscillating bass guitar note - as the bass guitar signal goes up it changes the of pitch of the cymbal HF sound - giving side bands)

FWIW - this is already a huge problem in speakers and especially those with overhung voice coils that are not particularly linear throughout their driver excursion.
Roger,

What happens in-between is not monitored - it is assumed.

This is not true; this is in fact what Propagation Delay **is**. Any opamp designer and any amplifier designer worth his salt will be quite concerned about that number!

So- its only when volume is *changed* that pitch is affected? So as long as we don't change the volume, there's no worries.

It must be a subtle effect as there are Voltage Control Amplifiers on my synthesizer that I routinely use to modulate my volume with a Low Frequency Oscillator (as an effect), but I've never associated that with a pitch change nor has anyone mentioned it on the various synthesizer groups I monitor (and they talk about a lot of stuff like this). My instrument tuner can't detect a difference either!

So- you did not answer the question- over a 20db range, how much pitch change will be observed? Let's assume that the volume is being changed by 20db over a period of 1/2 second.
I assume you must have documented effects like this in order to prove or disprove your hypothesis, so you must also therefore be able to predict the pitch change if you know the volume change over time. there must be a formula? Like Pitch=something something X frequency divided by time :)
“So- its only when volume is *changed* that pitch is affected? So as long as we don't change the volume, there's no worries.”

Atmasphere,
Now we are getting somewhere – here is the other shoe dropping.
You don’t have to manually change the volume (yourself) – your amplifier is changing the gain on the fly.
It is the unstable nature of the instantaneous gain that is constantly altering the velocity and therefore pitch.
The tiny changes in pitch also represent the shifting of the perceived location of that sound object on the stage.

Roger
You don’t have to manually change the volume (yourself) – your amplifier is changing the gain on the fly

I understood that from your previous post. My question is why we do not see this in THD and IMD figures or an analyzer which looks at the distribution of harmonics - it appears to be a non-linearity much like any other. (I would still expect speakers to be far worse than an amp on this issue)
“My instrument tuner can't detect a difference either!”

Atmasphere,

I think I’m realizing why it is so difficult to absorb what I’m claiming.
Not to make things worse but I should mention that my work with amplifiers has taken place at microscopic levels. I have studied the behavior of circuits as they operate or are set into motion.
Since this is far below the radar of test equipment – it is done in a theoretical realm
The changes in gain that I have tried to give as examples are gross exaggerations done in order to make a point that you can recognize at a large scale. In fact the changes in gain that I deal with are typically 1/100th of a db. or less. You will never see this with a spectrum analyzer or o’scope. The tiny changes in gain however will definitely manifest themselves as obvious to the listener when your brain detects the unstable placement of a given sound object in the deployed sound field.

Roger