How do you determine how much to spend on speakers

Kraz:
Well it only goes to show that there is more than one way to skin a cat. This line makes the Tower of Babel look moderately coherant. I'd throw my 2cents worth in but I am not sure I have that much to say. I'll give you 1cents worth.

What are your plans for the future? You say your budget at 5K is "modest" and that you are just "starting out". To me that suggests you may upgrade in the future. If you want to upgrade I suggest that you leave a place in your system to do so. Nothing worse than trying to upgrade a perfectly balanced system. You spend a lot of $$$ that way. If you're not certain listen to as many 5K systems as you can before you buy and ask yourself if you can live happily ever after with it.

I will suggest a system that is very nice and also upgradable. I fall on the buy the best speakers you can get side of the argument. I don't care if you buy them first or last (Natalie's argument), just buy them. The garbage in garbage out argument is true, but why do you ever need to put garbage in? And, speakers color sound more than any other component in my experience. (If you think cables make a difference just play with the caps to your tweeters, but that is another story.) I think the price for nice stuff on the source side is reasonable. In another recent post audiogonhead Chelillingworth raved about how well a NAD 370 (Integrated Amp @$550 that has won all sorts of acclaim across the big water) did when paired with his Physic Virgo 3's ($5,500). He was used to listening to them with Rogue Audio prior to the switch so he has ears. I have heard an Odyssey Stratos (used $900-1000) do the same thing.

A system a friend recently bought went something like this: North Creek Rhythm Revelator Signature Speakers ($2,800). You buy it as a kit but it is not rocket science and is a great education about what a speaker is about. (Worth it just for the experience.) The crossover is completely built you just pop it in. It includes 8 guage coils, Crescendo Caps and top of the line Scan Speak drivers hand matched to within .5db.(Have any idea what you need to spend on retail speakers to see that?). Power it with a NAD 370 integrated Amp (120W) ($600). Buy the best used cd you can find ($1000). Spend the rest on accessories.

This will sound fantastic and, at the same time you can rotate the NAD out when the time comes for next to no loss. If you put a nice tube source in there in a year or two, look out.

I'm absolutely certain that there is nobody here who will agree with the above but that is what makes this so interesting, and there are lots of great 5k systems out there.

Sincerely, I remain

Balance in all things. I think good technical stands can be taken as to which component has the most impact on a system and where the greatest amount of money should go. This just isn't my experience.

I feel balance and system compatability always show up in the overall sonic merit.

Most "things" that excel...be it a performer, and artist, a parent...person,..or a thing, a good auto, camera...etc..they always seem to excel because of balance.

So I would not put an excess of an audio budget into any one component..but begin with the end in mind.

Consider your room size, the type of music you listen to, the levels you listen too...and, how much you want to play the upgrade game over the next two to five... Then look at your system as a whole and make your choices.

Whatjd, thanks for summing things up in a smooth and flowing manner. You said what i wanted to say... Sean
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Krazeeyk; Charlie (Danvetc), Tedmitz and Clueless above give good advice. Clueless is only wrong in thinking nobody will agree with him.

Speakers are the least accurate hifi component (leaving phono cartridges out of the discussion since you say you are not interested in analog). The character of a hifi system is influenced more by speakers, since they have more character than the other components in the system. At the same time, there are a lot of budget priced amps and cd players out there that do a very good job, e.g., the NAD amp mentioned by Clueless.

You should listen to as many speakers as your patience allows, and pick the one, for up to say 60-70% of your budget, that sounds as close to real life as you can get. That said, there are some good choices for 30-50% of your budget.

Charlie and I have Harbeth Compact 7's. (His is cosmetically a little different and called the 7ES.) Without being able to hear them, but having experience with other Harbeth speakers, I bought mine on the basis of information and advice I received from one of my favorite writer/reviewers, Professor Greene ("REG" in The Absolute Sound) who Charlie mentions. (You can ignore Natalie's silliness above as it seems to confuse Charlie's recommendaton of dvd player and dac with REG's recommendation that you should put most of your money in speakers.) This does not mean I think you should order Harbeth speakers. They may not be right for you. I think you should go out and listen to a lot of speakers.

There was an Absolute Sound issue a few years ago (actually 1993), in which the reviewers recommended systems. At the $5,000 level, one recommended the Vandersteen 2CE mentioned by someone above, at about 30% of the total system price. One recommended the Spica Angelus at about the same price. And Professor Greene recommended spending 50% of the budget on a pair of Spendor 1/2 speakers (that's one, version 2, not one-half). That was before the Harbeth Compact 7 came out and before Professor Greene heard them, so today, he might say listen to both and buy either one. The point is his advice was the same as Charlie, Ted and Clueless above.

You can hear the Vandersteens and Spendors someplace in the LA area. The Harbeths are not carried by anyone yet and I don't think anyone even has a demo pair.

Spend as much as you need to to get speakers you can live with for a long time. Get inexpensive electronics to drive them with, but get advice before you buy any inexpensive electronics. Generally, the LA area hifi dealers can help you choose.

The balanced approach recommended above is sure to reward the dealers with whom you do business, because every component will be improved with an upgrade. Better to have speakers that will reward you for every upgrade you make.

If you want some more specific help about where to start you search in SoCal, feel free to email me.

Another thought. All the posts above are about different points of view. Do you remember the song that went, "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife . . . So from my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you." The audiophile equivalent of an ugly girl is a minisystem from the Good Guys. Go buy a Denon M30 or the Yamaha Pianocraft, and forget about all this nonsense.