How to properly set VTF??

Not to try to be dismissive of the "disengagement" of A/S,as mentioned,it just makes no sense to me,to measure meaningful downforce,this way.The arm is tracking at 1.87 as the disc plays.This,with A/S engaged.If we were to disengage the A/S and adjust downforce,then re-engage A/S,we will, now, not really know the actual "record in motion" downforce.Right?I'm really NOT trying to be contradictory.It's just that the A/S "is" part of the "playing" aspect,and it seems that it should be engaged in the downforce cycle.This way,it's easy to have a repeatable setting,to adjust to,with a good guage.I HOPE!!!Truthfully,I know no-one who disengages A/S to set downforce,and then re-engages to play a disc,but I'm TRULY open to any new ideas here.I'm not emphatically positive of my own methods,but being lazy,I like my way better!!Hey,I have NONE of my inner sleeves marked for vta,but I know some who do.I wish my laziness didn't come into play here,as this is the mark of a REAL enthusiast.

My pal,who always had inconsistent settings,has always had drift,in his azimuth/downforce,due to lazyiness in setting with his "own" guage.He always relied on others to come over and check it for him.He also had a soft dustcover,that made continual contact with the arm,when at rest.WE've convinced him to get more actively involved in his own set-up parameters,and he has bought a hard dustcover,which is taken off during play(obviously).He,also,has the worst listening environment any of us have seen,regarding massive static,Rfi,and Emi.Just to touch a button,in the preamp has sent huge static charges into the system.Yes,we've seen a display of blown drivers,amp and pre problems,and continual hard dust build-up under the cartridge body,over the years.Fortunately,we have gotten a handle on this,and he's lucky to have spare "bucks"!!Thank goodness.It's an amazing tribute to technology,which has allowed him to quell much of this,over time!

Moral of story--try NOT to set up a high end system,on the 22nd story of a N.Y. highrise apt bldg,by yourself.

On a much lighter note(as in --WHITE OUT-- LIGHTER)DOUG,we may not be exactly on the same page regarding some analog issues,yet,and yet we have much more in common(as of this writing,11:43 PM),as WE are now COMMONLY being SOCKED,BIG TIME,with a seriously pain in the tush BLIZZARD.

Times like this,it's SO nice to be SNOWBOUND with a great system and fine music collection!!Excuse me,now,I've got to turn over my new SAX pressing of Oistrach doing the Brahms double cto.

What's that you say,Doug?You want me to refill my glass of cheap(but good) Shiraz,while my neighbors worry about cleaning off their driveways,tomorrow.I think I WILL go for a re-fill,and don't worry!I won't forget to call the snowplow guy(to do my driveway).'Cause it's gonna be a late nighter,for me.It's not often I can go to sleep with a smile.How about you?

Best regards,and here's a toast to all!!Sip,Sip.

Dear Sirspeedy: WElcome a board!!!

+++++ " BTW--If the arm sees the anti-skate as it plays the record,I can't understand why one would not want to adjust downforce with it engaged. " +++++

You are right but there is a little problem: usually the AS value changes a cross the record, so the VTF will change with those AS changes and we need a constant VTF. Now, if we have a constant AS then your idea is not only right but we can work with it.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Sirspeedy, unless you have a dynamic load cell at the stylus, you really don't know the 'true' VTF at any given place on the record. If you think that because you reset your VTF to 1.87 that you are getting 1.87 every time, then you are mistaken! The 0.01 variation or precision that you claim is an illusion, since other parameters involved vary more than that. +/- 0.1gm is all that is needed and also to set up with the AS de-activated. Activating the AS will falsify the VTF reading by more than 0.01g due to the horizontal vector force applied. Re-applying the AS after the VTF is set is only approximate anyway and is correct for only 2 spots on the record anyway.
Bob P.

After pondering some of these excellent responses,Bob's really puts the "Kabbash" on anyone using an arm with antiskate.Possibly!

Maybe this is one reason Harry Weissfeld,of VPI does not employ an antiskate setting on his unipivots.

This does seem to lend creedence to the issue of a "tangenital tracking" arm.Like the Air Tangent/Kuzma Airline/or Walker!

In reality I guess the best I can do,in my own set-up,is "guesstimate"!!

However, just to continue the discussion, if we assume that on a given listening session all things being equal (humidity, temp, phase of the moon, etc.) that these variances that Bob mentions across the record will be pretty much the same each time the record is played. (I would hope they are or there is something really wrong with all of our playback equipment.) In this case the VTF of 1.87 is the only parameter we can measure to somewhat predict the behavior of the arm/cartridge across the grooves. Perhaps with some arms and some cartridges it can make a difference. (I admit I haven't experienced it but I don't yet own a cartridge that could respond to that level of adjustment. Mine don't even respond much to VTA changes. :) ) I can't help but draw an analogy to a stock car. The suspension, and thus the load on any tire, is constantly changing all the way around the track but the only way to somehow predict the behavior is to weigh the static load on each tire. Then changes are made during the run to compesate for what is actually happening. We have the advantage in that our "track", the grooves, are much more predictable in that we don't have to worry about what line we trace since there is only one.