2. misc-audio
  3. 1053032569

Hubbell HG, Surge Protected & IG, Anyone use this?

I was researching Hospital Grade Isolated Ground power receptacles and came across these in Hubbell's catalog, which combines Hospital Grade, Surge Protection and Isolated Ground in one receptacle.

Part numbers with a prefix of IG8262 (15AMP) and IG8362 (20AMP). These parts come in 6 colors (Blue, Ivory, Gray, White, Orange and Red) and have a rating of "240 Joules/13000A per mode" and meet UL Stds 1449 2nd edition and the 15AMP version is CSA Certified. I called Hubbell Tech Services and asked what if anything is the difference besides the added surge protection compared to the HG IG8300 that is so well known on this forum. The answer: The IG8262/IG8362 uses a steel strap, is riveted and may not grip as well as the 8300 but is still a HG quality receptacle. The Tech Person could not answer any audio related questions.

Two questions relating to the IG8262 (15AMP) and IG8362 (20AMP): see background below for details of my setup/config
1. How will the built in surge protector affect the quality & flow of the power and/or sound compared to the IG8300.
2. How will the steel strap and rivets affect the quality of the power and/or sound compared to the IG8300. (which as many of you know, does not use steel or rivets)

I wanted to use the following color scheme for all the HS IG receptacles and the Hubbell IG8x62 series has the colors, but the IG8300 only comes in Orange, PS Audio Power Port only in Gray, etc.: Orange for UPS protected devices, Gray for filtered/conditioned protected devices and White for supplying power to a protection device (ie: filter/conditioner and/or UPS) or Subwoofer. (Std non-dedicated, non-protected outlets are white without the HG IG symbols)

I will gladly sacrifice color for better power flow and better sound quality if I have to! The bottom line: Is there a difference that I may hear based on the background & equipment detailed below.

Any other options for HG & IG audio quality receptacles in the colors above? (with or without the surge protection)

David
Sun Certified Network Administrator and MCSE
----------------------------
Background:
- New 1yr old house and finishing the basement with a Theater and Equipment Room, etc.
- Whole House Surge Protector (new APC: PMP2X) installed at main service panel.
- A subpanel in the Equipment Room (ER) wired from the main service panel using a dedicated 80AMP circuit breaker and in wall 4-gauge Hospital Grade MC-4-2 line. (MC-4-2 is Hospital Grade wire that uses a metal flex conduit w/ 4-gauge solid 2-conductor plus a 6-gauge solid insulated ground)

- The subpanel in the ER supplies:
- AV Equipment Cabinet from a 20AMP circuit using 10-gauge MC-10-2 wire (same as above but w/ 10-gauge 2-conductor & 12-gauge ground) and metal boxes.
- Two subwoofers each on their own 20AMP circuits using 10-gauge MC-10-2 wire and metal boxes. (one circuit to the front subwoofer and the 2nd to the rear sub)
- Computer/LAN Cabinet (APC 2200XL UPS) on a 30AMP/120V circuit using 10-gauge MC-10-2 wire and metal boxes.

- The AV Cabinet is protected first by a Monster Power AVS 2000 then an HTPS 7000 which is plugged into the AVS2000 (per tech engineers at Monster). (

- Patch outlets (type yet to be determined) in the wall next to the AV Cabinet supply outlet and more next to the UPS supply outlet will be used to power the other end of each patch outlet. A heavy power cord (TBD, suggestions?) will connect the filtered/protected power output from the Monster HTPS 7000 to the Patch Outlet in order to energize a given Patch line. (think of each of these as a dedicated run, in-wall extension cord using MC-10-2 or MC-12-2. 10-gauge for RPTV and future ceiling projector runs and 12-gauge for the Crestron touch panel outlet in the theater and non-audio or non-computer related outlets that still benefit from HG IG on UPS protection such as two separate runs to the Study on the main floor for the computers, etc.)

For the subwoofers (not supplied from HTPS 7000), I will use the "Monster Cable Subwoofer PowerCenter SW 200 with Clean Power Stage 1 v2.0" because it provides 1110-joule surge protection vs the 240 in the IG8362.

Current equipment details not listed above:
(all cables are Monster Cable brand off the shelf or custom lengths terminated at factory w/ Monster Locks for speaker and same grade terminators as off the shelf for all others including the in-wall runs)

- Denon AVR5803 as main for Theater (7.1 and 9.1 modes)
- Pioneer Elite PRO-710HD RPTV (wire: MVHDDB15, M1000CV-8M, etc.)
- Sony DVP-S7000 DVD Player (with factory upgrades) (wire: M1000v Silver Video component & COAX audio)
- Speakers: Snell:
- Main: E.5 (wire: M1.4s biwired)
- Center: CR.5 (wire: M1.2s)
- Rear (corners): K.5 (wire: M1.4s biwired)
- Side Surround: SR.5 (wire: MCX-2s)
- Rear Surrounds (EX): CLS.5 (wire: MCX-2s)
- Velodyne: HGS-15II (THX Ultra2 cert.) Front/Main Sub (wire: MSB850SW w/ supplied MSB850SW Y-splitter (1F-2M) and a factory custom MSB850SW Y-splitter (1M-2F) at Denon AVR5803 for signal to other Sub)
- Energy e:XL S10 10" Rear Sub (wire: MB400SW)
----- end -----
hawkwindeb
hawkwindeb OP
6 posts
 
Zorpman,

I'm interested in more info on your question: "Have you given any thought to the waveform deformation and phase distortion of all this protection?" As this may actual introduce degradation in sound quality and was not specifically but in general the question/point of my original post to see if anything such as this may impact sound quality. So, will these power artifacts get introduced and if yes, how will they affect the sound quality?

As to your other points, I agree that lightning by its nature could jump protection, it is just that I'm looking for more protection but balanced this against the most cost effective method.

David
lak's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
lak
4,631 posts
 
Break in time for outlets:

Cryod outlet in place of outlet that you run a freezer or refrigerator (30 days)

regular outlet...same as above (10 days)
zorpman
87 posts
 
My point is that more/bigger is not necesarily better. The system you describe does not merit 4ga wire or an 80A breaker. You have turned the breaker from a circuit protection device into a HD switch. It also appears that you have more MOVs than the 3rd ID.

Using two high grade Monster Cable voltage stablizers/conditioners seems to be an invitation for oscillation of current, voltage, and phase between the two units. This could result in your power sine wave looking more like a modest ocean swell or, conversly, clipping of the sine wave. Not good for your equipment, sound, or video.

You might want to think about a HD isolation transformer/conditioner such as a Sola CVS 23-23-230-8 (3000kv)for a 240/120v step down as close to the use point as possible. The use of higher voltage (240v)will reduce your need for lower gage wire for long runs. A good isolation transformer's current will go into a clean collapse if faced with a power surge or overload (not bloody likely to overload this 70kg of copper with a transient demand peak). Use one of your Monster cable conditioners as your current divider/power point to limit your connections (well done high current/voltage connections are not bad but the fewer and simpler a design the better (on the whole)).

Lower your circuit breaker trip point to 150-200 of your maximum inrush current draw (or 150% if using slow-trip breakers). I seem to remember that these high end Monster Cable conditioners have programable turn-ons so why not use that feature to lower your inrush current spike to closer to solid state levels and let the circuit breaker actually provide real world protection?

If I understand your system design (and I am not sure that I do) I would also be concerned about ground loops forming from your star ground design. Hmmmmm is one of the most frustrating issues to deal with and simple ground design can be a savior.

Good Luck.
zorpman
87 posts
 
Three errors in my second post

1) 3000va not kv
2) 150-200 should be 150-200%
3) solid state should be steady state

Sorry
hawkwindeb OP
6 posts
 
Zorpman & all: The wiring and drywall are complete. Remaining tasks:

A. Pick out the electrical receptacles for:
- Supply to the AV cabinet (Monster AVS2000)
- Computer/LAN Cabinet (UPS which requires 30AMP 120V L5-30P - 30A Twist-Lock)
- Subwoofers
- RPTV
- Equipment Room (ER) patch outlets.
B. Then pick out power cords where applicable & effective

BTW: The choice to go with the MC-4-2 wire as well as the 10 & 12-gauge sizes was to future proof as best as possible within reasonable limits. For example: Using MC-10-2 to supply the AV Cab I could change the breaker and outlet to 30AMP if I needed to :-) future upgrade of the Denon 5803 to 5 or more large monoblock type esoteric Amp’s and the other components to match, Add more circuits to the subpanel for a 2nd UPS requiring 30AMP for the computer/LAN cabinet, etc..... Also, the subpanel is rated for 100AMPs but even this could be upgraded so much more easily than running a replacement or even a 2nd supply line from the Service Entrance all the way to the other side of the house (50ft of which 85% of the distance is now finished) to the subpanel in the ER, etc....

And yes, receptacles are the easiest to replace, but why spend even $15 ea and replace in a few months if dissatisfied, if a few $ more (ie: IG8362) can get the colors and performance that matches the equipment I currently have. If the sound will not be degraded compared to an IG8300 or PS Audio Port, (ie: $30-50USD max) etc. (BTW: I’m not opposed to the PS Audio and its price, but I’m having a hard time justifying it which is why I’m posting to this forum for info and advice)

David
More to discover