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Improve volume from turntable with a new cartridge?

Hi all,

I am getting back into hifi after years of iPod and computer speakers. Last week I bought a Music-Hall integrated amp and a pair of B&W 686 S2 speakers, and a JL Audio powered 8" sub-woofer. CD player is a Sony CDP C-445 multi-disc player that I bought for $100 used. Turntable is one I have from years ago, a Technics SL-D2 direct-drive with a plastic-looking Grado cartridge, not sure of model, it was back in the early ’90s.

This morning I tried to do an A/B comparison between my turntable and my CD player. Music was Pink Floyd’s "Dark Side of the Moon". Old scratched 20-year-old CD versus brand-new bought yesterday LP from the local vinyl store.

It was difficult to do a proper A/B because every time I switched to the phono input on the amp, I had to increase the volume to about 2 o’clock, and when I switched back to the CD input I had to dial back the volume to about noon.

The amp has a phono input so I am assuming it has a built-in phono pre-amp, right? If so, why is the volume still so low? Would upgrading to a better cartridge increase the volume? I am open to a newer, better-quality turntable if it will improve the sound considerably. I have hundreds of LPs, about half of which are in good condition and would probably be good to listen to after a good cleaning, BUT I also have hundreds of CDs, and if the turntable / LP would not yield significant improvement over the CDs, then I am hesitant to invest further in analog.

So.... back to the point... if I could get close to the same volume from my phono as I do from CD, it would be easier to do a decent A/B. Could a different cartridge in my existing turntable achieve that?

Alternatively I could check with my local hifi store and see if they would let me bring home and test-drive a turntable.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your time and advice.

Eric Zwicky
Richmond VA
ezwicky
rodman99999
6,204 posts
 
You only mention trying one vinyl and one CD. If that’s the case, you haven’t, "A/B’ed" your Phono and Line circuits, or cartridge. Only the two recordings and the levels at which they were recorded. You’ll probably find that you own some CDs of lower recorded level and vinyls of a higher, than your two Pink Floyds. If the sound quality is consistent, trying to obtain the same spot on your volume control, between various media/recordings, is an exercise in futility. The output level of a cartridge is not necessarily related to it’s, "quality". Some of the world’s most highly regarded carts, have the lowest output levels. If you’re set on replacing the cart, you can enter the make and model of what you have, in the following database and compare the output voltage to that of other carts, you may be considering. (https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php) You didn’t mention whether the Integrated is new, which(if not) may present another variable. If it’s very old, some Phono sections contain a plethora of electrolytics, which dry out over time and will lower the circuit’s output and presentation quality. Then too, sometimes the elastomers of a cart’s compliance(cantilever suspension) dry out with age. Bottom line: How’s the system sound, irrespective of knob position?
ezwicky OP
26 posts
 
Thanks for the reply rodman99999.   I only have one LP record in excellent condition that I also have a CD of, so it's all I am able to use for an A/B.

The integrated is a new Music-Hall a15.3.   

I took a closer look at the cartridge and then at the Grado site, and mine looks like a Prestige Black1.    I can't remember how old it is.


lewm
13,345 posts
 
Your equation has too many unknowns for anyone to give you a good  answer to your question.  First and foremost, you need to verify that your integrated amplifier does indeed provide phono equalization.  There was a time during the downturn in use of vinyl as a source that such components were marketed with a pair of inputs labeled "Phono", but that was only a suggestion where to connect the output of a separate phono stage. It doesn't necessarily mean that there is a phono equalization and gain network inside.  If your LP sounds tonally balanced, similar to the CD, chances are you do have a phono section in the box.  Next, you need to know the gain of the phono section and the voltage output of your cartridge.  Almost certainly, your phono section, if you have one, is designed for high output cartridges, probably like the one you are using, but you do need to find out the signal voltage output of your cartridge.  This is usually stated in "mV" or millivolts and it refers to a particular stylus velocity, either 3.54 cm/sec or 5 cm/sec.  If the output of your cartridge is 3mV or more, it is likely that it can drive your phono section to full output.  If the output of your cartridge is stated to be 1-2mV or less, then it cannot drive your phono stage to full output, and in that case you might improve matters by purchasing a cartridge with higher output. And, by the way, it is not at all unusual for there to be more gain from a CDP than from a phono stage.  Nearly all CDPs put out up to 2V signal; not all phono stages can equal that.  The difference in setting between 12 and 2 o'clock for CDP vs phono is not at all unusual.  

ezwicky OP
26 posts
 
Thanks lewm.      The manual for the integrated amp says input sensitivity for the phono (MM) input section is 1mV.   The Grado Prestige cartridge is 5mV, so I should be OK there.

The aim of this exercise is to determine whether or not I should invest more money in analog, or just stick with what I have.  I have a pretty good collection, maybe 1000 LPs, but a lot of them are older and scratched or otherwise marginal.    

If it's normal to have the 12-:00 - 2:00 disparity in volume knob between CD and turntable, then that pretty much answers my original long-winded question.

I think to make an informed decision I will have to see about bringing home for audition a better turntable and cartridge.


fjn04
1,561 posts
 
Eric- Are you getting dynamics with the vinyl. 5 mv is a healthy output. All very tough to say without knowing your phono section, and the condition of your cartridge. Needledoctor has plenty of cartridges with the listed specs to explore on their website. but why not give Roy Hall or your dealer a call. 
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