2. amps-preamps
  3. 176614-122223

Is a separate phono pre really necessary?

I have an upgraded Rega P3 that is now essentially a P6 (groove tracer subplatter and counter weight, Rega Neo ps) that has a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC star mounted on it. It is then connected to a Park Audio Budgie Ten SUT and then to a Rogue Audio RP-5 preamp.

This question is about the phono stage in the RP-5. Would upgrading to a separate phone preamp of around $1,000 to $2,000 be a worthwhile upgrade from the internal phone preamp in the RP-5? And if so which phone pre do you guys recommend (notwithstanding all the caveats about subjectivity). I'm thinking of the soundsmith mcp-2, PS audio stellar phono, parasound jc3 jr., maybe a Manley Chinook if I can find a good deal.

The wrinkle is the loading requirements for the zephyr mimic star: >= 470 ohms. This makes a lot of phone preamps really not suitable for this cartridge (hence premaps with adjustable loading via a pot) because of the static loading options are mostly well below 470 ohms on most phono preamps

smanuel
audphile1's avatar
audphile1
4,892 posts
 

I had the RP-5 and used its internal phono stage with Hana EL cartridge. I was not impressed. I switched to MoFi UltraPhono and it was slightly better but still not what I was looking for (exciting sound but kind of flat in the soundstage department) so I returned it and bought a Sutherland KC Vibe MkIi. Very happy with it. The Hana cartridge calls for >400ohn loading and the Sutherland is perfect at 475. A very notable step up from what Rogue includes in the RP-5  

The Vibe MkII loading options include 100, 200, 475, 1k or 47kOhms. 
It’s quiet, resolving and very natural sounding. Build quality is top notch.  
I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it. 

aj523
362 posts
 

You can’t go wrong with Sutherland. I started with his KC vibe, then the 20/20 LPS and then the Duo, each incrementally lowering the noise floor increasing the dynamics. 

smanuel OP
6 posts
 

@viridian Yeah, you’re probably correct; Dr. Feickert, Linn, SOTA, P8/P10 are all on my wish list. However my current budget precludes a such an upgrade at the moment. But that is why I’m asking about a separate phono stage.

@elliottbnewcombjr Do I like my MM phono stage sound? Not sure. Both sound fine but a bit flat to my ears. Like that AS review you quoted, I’m using the highest gain setting and that could be the issue. Or it could be that I’m running the signal through a SUT and this is loading the cart at the minimum impedance setting. But either way I feel that a separate phono stage might be beneficial. And the extra gain would be welcome as well.

@audphile1 @aj523 @sokogear Thanks for your impressions of Sutherland gear. I’m getting the sense that Sutherland equipment is really good for the price.

@jfuquay "Pleasant"-- that is *exactly* what the RP-5 phono stage sounds/feels to me. It really doesn’t wow me much. And considering I have a pretty damn good cart I feel this might be a limiting part of my system.

aj523
362 posts
 

@smanuel 

Np. And in terms of customer service, the founder /owner Logan Sutherland (former co-founder of Martin Logan) is always only a cell phone call away which is a nice thing.

coltrane1's avatar
coltrane1
739 posts
 

Depends on your gear. I had a SS phono stage in a Carver Ultimate receiver that sold for $5k that sounded pretty good! My PS Audio phono pre was a bit better but not that much better. To spend $2k for a separate phono pre I’d say only if your budget will allow it.

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