Jaxwired,
I think you read a little to far into my post.
"Two points you made that I don't agree with. First, I've been buying from internet dealers for a long time and you are wrong, no way do they have the same over head that a B&M store does. Not even close. And if done well they can reach a national audience which is what is needed to stay in business. In the many transactions that I've engaged in with internet dealers, they acted as simple order takers. There was zero pre sales service or post sales service and I don't expect any. Give me the product at 35% off and have a nice day."
About the first point, regarding the overhead of internet dealers, I'm not wrong. I never said it was an identical comparison. There are a lot of variables and depending on a particular dealer, how many common expenses that will be similar or shared, will have to be examined on a case by case basis. Your experience with such internet dealers, are valid examples, but are relative to you. Nothing wrong with that, but looking at the whole picture requires you do consider all of whats available, not just the stores that you've done business with.
"And if done well they can reach a national audience which is what is needed to stay in business."
That's a good point, but it costs money to do that. Also, just because you got a 35% discount on something doesn't mean that's the standard. In fact, many brands would bar a dealer from obtaining their brand if they saw that discounting like that was normal business polity. So, like I said, its all relative to the products and brands. They all have different requirements. Its just normal, everyday business.
"The other thing you said I don't agree with is that the used market would be hurt if people stopped buying new gear from B&M dealers. This is wrong. If the manufactures were openly selling at lower markup over the internet than the used prices would just be cheaper. People would still buy new gear just without the 45% dealer markup. Then the used market would also benefit from lower prices. Look at a company like wyred4sound. They sell an amp for $2k that would be $4k if sold by a B&M store. When it sells used, it's just all that much cheaper.
And as for a company like Wilson doing business as an internet operation. Not sure. I will say that people do buy Wilson speakers all the time here on Audiogon. So the used market is willing to buy these products mail order."
Its possible that I wasn't clear on that. I wasn't talking about all products. Just the ones that are more expensive and specialized. I used Wilson as an example, because in order to set them up for a proper demo, a lot goes into it. A good room, assoc. equipment, knowledgeable setup people, etc... Like many high end products, they're not meant to be sold mail order. I then said that if you don't have a good new market, the used market will suffer. It has to. Without people to buy new Wilson's, there won't be a used market. That was the whole point. I agree that people will buy used Wilson's here on Audiogon, but people have to get them first new. And without B&M stores, brands like Wilson, will probably not survive.
I think you read a little to far into my post.
"Two points you made that I don't agree with. First, I've been buying from internet dealers for a long time and you are wrong, no way do they have the same over head that a B&M store does. Not even close. And if done well they can reach a national audience which is what is needed to stay in business. In the many transactions that I've engaged in with internet dealers, they acted as simple order takers. There was zero pre sales service or post sales service and I don't expect any. Give me the product at 35% off and have a nice day."
About the first point, regarding the overhead of internet dealers, I'm not wrong. I never said it was an identical comparison. There are a lot of variables and depending on a particular dealer, how many common expenses that will be similar or shared, will have to be examined on a case by case basis. Your experience with such internet dealers, are valid examples, but are relative to you. Nothing wrong with that, but looking at the whole picture requires you do consider all of whats available, not just the stores that you've done business with.
"And if done well they can reach a national audience which is what is needed to stay in business."
That's a good point, but it costs money to do that. Also, just because you got a 35% discount on something doesn't mean that's the standard. In fact, many brands would bar a dealer from obtaining their brand if they saw that discounting like that was normal business polity. So, like I said, its all relative to the products and brands. They all have different requirements. Its just normal, everyday business.
"The other thing you said I don't agree with is that the used market would be hurt if people stopped buying new gear from B&M dealers. This is wrong. If the manufactures were openly selling at lower markup over the internet than the used prices would just be cheaper. People would still buy new gear just without the 45% dealer markup. Then the used market would also benefit from lower prices. Look at a company like wyred4sound. They sell an amp for $2k that would be $4k if sold by a B&M store. When it sells used, it's just all that much cheaper.
And as for a company like Wilson doing business as an internet operation. Not sure. I will say that people do buy Wilson speakers all the time here on Audiogon. So the used market is willing to buy these products mail order."
Its possible that I wasn't clear on that. I wasn't talking about all products. Just the ones that are more expensive and specialized. I used Wilson as an example, because in order to set them up for a proper demo, a lot goes into it. A good room, assoc. equipment, knowledgeable setup people, etc... Like many high end products, they're not meant to be sold mail order. I then said that if you don't have a good new market, the used market will suffer. It has to. Without people to buy new Wilson's, there won't be a used market. That was the whole point. I agree that people will buy used Wilson's here on Audiogon, but people have to get them first new. And without B&M stores, brands like Wilson, will probably not survive.
