Is there an ideal (ish) cartridge output?

I agree. I think that a well-specified phono stage usually solves most of the issues. I think that one can have too much gain as easily, as too little. 

Another aspect that also got me thinking about this, is when you crank the volume on an input of a cd player or DAC when nothing is playing you get silence, but when you do that with a phono stage you will quickly get noise when past a certain threshold when music is not playing. Which got me thinking does anyone have a phono setup where that does not happen?

In a way it's not about what gear can you get to give you the best output, but more over what is the best output to give you the lowest noise without sacrificing performance. Hypothetically, would this be a great combination for low SNR and THD, without sacrificing a designer's voicing of a cartridge or phono stage?

- .8mv phono cartridge
- 52db gain from the phono stage in a balanced configuration

Cartridges in that middle ground of 1.0 to 2.0mV tend to be either HOMC or MI types.  In my experience and in my opinion only, HOMCs are rarely top class, usually duds, whereas MI types often are among my favorites.  Therefore, I would make no distinction based only on output signal voltage.  There is no "ideal", in other words. Of course, it is imperative that your particular phono stage can deal with the output of whatever cartridge you happen to like.

Another aspect that also got me thinking about this, is when you crank the volume on an input of a cd player or DAC when nothing is playing you get silence, but when you do that with a phono stage you will quickly get noise when past a certain threshold when music is not playing. Which got me thinking does anyone have a phono setup where that does not happen?

My Herron VTPH-2 (not 2A), used with an Audio Technica AT-ART9 cartridge rated at 0.5 mv, is amazingly quiet.

I frequently play minimally compressed classical symphonic recordings which can reach brief dynamic peaks of 100 to 105 db at my 12 foot listening distance, but when I turn the volume control up to settings that are well above any that I might ever use I hear zilch unless my ears are very close to the speakers. And likewise when I listen via Stax electrostatic headphones, which certainly do not have a rolled off top end.
That is with the stock tubes, btw, and with the Herron applying essentially no load (i.e., a near infinite number of ohms) to the cartridge.

Comments by some members that I've seen here have have led me to suspect that the more recent VTPH-2A might be somewhat more noisy, at least with the stock tubes, and I've certainly been very happy with the sonics of the VTPH-2, so I have no plans to have the unit upgraded to the more recent version.

Regards,
-- Al

Getting a quiet result from a MC phono stage (or MM stage with SUT) and ~ 0.5mV cartridge is fairly easy to do. It gets increasingly difficult as your cartridge output falls below that. At 0.3mV you’re usually dealing with some discernible noise (unless you only listen at modest volumes), and it’s up to you whether that’s going to be problematic or not - though with good setups it should not be notable with needle in groove. Of course this is assuming you’ve optimized grounding so hum isn’t an overriding issue. And I don’t have much experience with MM cartridges.

Cartridge output along with phono preamp gain setting and making sure you are not inputting more than your preamps input sensitivity (mV). Risking not so much clipping as simply raising the noise floor too much, most preamp sections can handle close to 1V but some are spec’d at like 300mV. So some extended listening is needed.....Clearly a lower output in the 300-400mV range will help keep the noise floor pretty low, while allowing all the subtle musical pcs to come thru.