Isolating Digital Noise, need help.


I'm hearing noise from my ARC CDP thru my speakers presenting as a high frequency "whine" or "soft screeching." I need to isolate my digital from the AC line it shares with my analogue components. Running another dedicated line is not an option at this time.

I was wondering if a power strip with isolated receptacles, such as star-grounding, would be an alternative to a separate AC line.
As a test, I now have the CDP connected to a different outlet in my house and the noise thru my system is eliminated.

Would this type of power strip be an effective solution, and if so, I could use some recommendations. I have several layers of Blue Circle power conditioning, so I would need a strip with surge/EMF/RFI protection.
128x128lowrider57


jea, I hope that's a rhetorical question, because I'm going by what I read in the Whitlock paper.
Ralph thinks my Sunfire amp may have an atypical grounding design.

No, I did not mean it as rhetorical question at all.

(I assume the ICs are not long.)


I understand the principle of ground-loop in this case because they are connected by an unbalanced line.

Not that I doubt you read it. Where did you find that in the white paper? We are not talking about noise.

  
https://centralindianaaes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/indy-aes-2012-seminar-w-notes-v1-0.pdf

I think Ralph is probably right about the Sunfire grounding design and somehow that is causing a difference of potential, voltage, to exist between the two safety equipment grounded chassis. Thus current flow, 60Hz ground loop hum.

Just curious what happens if the ground cheater is placed on the amp and not on the preamp? Did you ever try it that way?  

When you find your multi meter I would also be curious to know, if from the IEC male ground contact pin on the Surfire amp if there is any measureable resistance  from the IEC ground pin to the metal chassis of the Amp. There should not be any resistance. The meter should read short. (Disconnect the ICs from the preamp when do the test. Shouldn't make any difference but it totally isolates the amp from anything else.) 

@jea48,
First, thank you for the tip on checking continuity of the two cables. They both test with a beep using the Continuity Setting.
Using the Resistance setting, both test close to zero.

As far as my understanding of ground loop, when two devices are plugged into mains power (both grounded), then connected together by an unbalanced cable, there will be current running thru that cable to each component. Is this correct?
BTW, the section on audio ground-loops in the Whitlock paper starts on page 56.
jea, I didn't try the cheater on the amp. I didn't think it was a good idea to lift the ground since it is a high power/current amp.

I will test the resistance on the Sunfire tomorrow, good idea. FYI, this amp was built in 1998 and has a fixed 3-prong AC cable. The next generation amp included an IEC cable.
Hi Lowrider,

I’ve just read through this thread. First, let me summarize some of the key points I’ve perceived:

1)The problem does not occur in any of the following cases:

(a)The CDP’s stock power cord is used instead of the Audience power cord.
(b)The CDP is connected to a more distant outlet. When you did this, how was the connection implemented (e.g., with a long extension cable attached to the Audience cord)?
(c)A different CDP is used.
(d)A different preamp (the prior one) is used.

2)The CDP’s stock power cord does not provide the open soundstaging and depth of the Audience power cord.

3)You will be demo’ing an SR power cord.

4)No ground loops are present, because:
(a)There is a Jensen transformer between the CDP and the preamp.
(b)There is a cheater plug on the preamp’s power plug, which eliminates the possibility of a ground loop between the preamp and the power amp.

5)Ideally you would prefer a solution that in addition to resolving the issue isolates the AC power provided to the digital components from the AC power provided to the analog components, because you anticipate purchasing a DAC.

Questions and suggestions:

1)If you haven’t already, it might be worthwhile trying the CDP’s stock power cord on the preamp. A reasonable speculation would be that the CDP’s stock power cord, as well as the extension cord I presume you used when you connected the CDP to a different outlet, resulted in higher series inductance than when using the Audience cord into the normal outlet, which in turn provided some degree of filtering of high frequency digital noise, that is causing the problem by coupling into the preamp through its power cord. So perhaps putting the CDP’s stock power cord on the preamp would resolve the problem, while not causing the sonic degradation you observed when using that cord on the CDP.

2)Are you sure that when you changed between the Audience and stock power cords on the CDP, and when you tried connecting the CDP to a distant outlet, that the physical proximity between those power cords and the preamp was not changed significantly? And that in all of those cases the CDP’s power cord has not been positioned close to the preamp or to the preamp’s power cord or interconnect cables?

3)For that matter, how close is the CDP to the preamp, and if they are close together have you tried moving them further apart? Although it seems likely that the noise is coupling through the power wiring, I don’t feel 100% certain of that at this point, and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that radiated interference is contributing.

4)Regarding power isolation or filtering between digital and analog components in anticipation of obtaining a DAC, my feeling is that perhaps you should cross that bridge when you come to it, and not necessarily as part of the process of resolving this problem. For one thing, the optimal approach at that time may be DAC-dependent, requiring greater or lesser degrees of isolation or filtering depending on the particular DAC. And who knows, it may not even be necessary to provide any.

Good luck. Best regards,
-- Al

lowrider57, I think that others may have already suggested what I would do first. 

Disconnect the interconnects from the amp and turn it on, If there is no noise, it is something upstream. If it still hums it is the amp, of course. 

Next add the line stage with both it and the amp on. If it doesn't hum, it is the line stage. If still no hum it is one of the sources. 

If it doesn't hum with one source but not the other, well you know. I think  you may have already done this and suspect the digital source. I would put a cheater plug on the amp if you find it is the digital source. If no hum with the cheater, you have ground loops. I would use cheaters on everything except the line stage.