JADIS JA80 with 6550 or KT 88 or KT90 ?

I have a DA30 and DA60. The DA60 is definitely worth the price of admission over a JOR, DA30, or DA50S.

The DA60 moves to some seriously larger transformers, which are the most important component of a tube amplifier. The trannies are what you should be paying for. On top of that, the DA60 is running twice as many tubes. Of course, it's painful when you retube, but the positives of all this are a surprisingly sweet, relaxed, and powerful sound at the volumes The Doctor (Mechans) and I listen - 95 dB at the listening chair. He says it's the only amp he's heard that produces such a natural and seductive sound, without going in to what he refers to as "tube blow" (when the lows get wooly). My Coincident Troubass subs run 10" Peerless woofers and require some current to do bass properly, no matter what a low power devotee claims. The DA60 is able to deliver the goods for these subs.

Still, again I'm going to say that when you put new tubes in an amp, they MUST run - in. I just don't believe the Ei KT90 sounded as good right out of the box as they do today because I have used these tubes, and still have a new quad I bought to replace in the JOR when I had it.

Your description of the EH KT88 being mellow and vague is what I also hear in that tube, as well as the EH6550. Believe me, a set of JJ E34L, KT77, or KT88 produce that lively, open sound, and is why I have all three. For what it's worth, I believe the JJ KT77 offers the best overall sound. The E34L having far and away the best mids, the KT88 having the bottom, and the KT77 having that powerful low end, with mids closer (though not quite close enough) to that of the E34L tubes.

You'll also realize significant improvement in a Jadis integrated by rolling the 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes. I can't stress this enough.

Trelja, interesting comments. So there is a difference in the EH 88 tube I had and the stock 88's that Jadis puts in their units? I'm very happy with the 90. After hearing the EK 88 I'd be afraid to try any other tube except the 90.
I believe Jadis offers a variety of tubes for the DA30.
Also hows the DA30 compared to my JOR, a big step up? As the DA60 is out my price range. Though a used one might be a future possibility.
What does rolling the 12ax7 mean?

Paul, I think Jadis supplies KT88 tubes these days in the Orchestra and DA lines. Pierre Gabriel does take pictures with a lot of tubes, however. And, it shows the flexibility of the amplifiers.

I believe Jadis was using KT88 in the mid - late 90s, but a few infamous bad batches of the Teslovak (now JJ) tubes caused them to try and keep the more bulletproof Ei KT90. They then returned to the KT88 as they feel it to have better sonics. This was before Pierre was the distributor in North America. When I bought my JOR, Frank Garbie was the distributor.

I was speaking with Pierre last week. I was kind of surprised to hear that, like me, he likes the EL34 sound best. The issue of power with this tube is a lot less than one would expect. I guess the transformers may help here. The drawback is what you lose in the lower end, and it cannot be denied.

The newly released JJ KT77 really produces the kind of bottom end I demand. And, while its mids are not up to the incredible level of the JJ E34L tubes, it betters the JJ KT88. I see it as the best overall compromise in my DA60. In the DA30, I'm running the E34L tubes, even though it's an older unit, and should be only using the 6550, KT88, or KT90. I'm kind of trying to run them, then see how they measure, just to see if the fears of cooking that tube too quickly are actually true.

Again, I'm not a fan of Russian tubes. The Sovteks have a irritating sound, and the EH go way overboard on the politeness thing, which sounds solid state to me. The JJs have a house sound of vividness and brilliance that works best for me. Still, they will not be everyone's flavor. I ran the Ei KT90 in my JOR until I went to the JJ E34L, and while I lost bass and a little power, the gain in beauty and wow factor made me a Jadis devotee for life.

Interestingly enough, I am finding the current production of Chinese tubes to be fantastic. I would have never believed it, but they actually are surpassing a lot of the NOS tubes I have on hand. No one would have ever been able to convince me of that I can assure you. Even the older ones err on the side of richness, so I prefer them to the Russian tubes. The new Chinese tubes seem to have changed a lot of their construction, and have really upped the performance. They're no longer junk. Others I trust seem to feel this way about the KT88 the Chinese are making now, and VAC even supplies them as OEM, which is saying something if you know anything about the kind of person Kevin Hayes is.

Rolling the 12AX7 means trying different versions and manufacturers. Ei that Jadis supplies are about as good as most modern manufacture. Though I hear great things about the JJ 12AX7 (ECC83) and their new ECC803, though the latter is a higher gain tube. Lots of people like NOS 12AX7, the Telefunken Smooth Plate being considered the Gold Standard, and commanding the most money, even if I have found superior tubes in my experience.

Rolling the 12AU7 if you get a DA30, DA50S, DA60, or DA88S would follow the same pattern.

Trelja,

I had used the EL34s on my JA30s and loved their delicacy so much so that I kept the JA30s as a back up when I bought the JA80s. For more power and bass, I went with the 6550A on the JA80. However, my Wilson WHOW subwoofer is driven by a separate (solid state) amp. Perhaps, the EL34's bass limitation may not apply in my system. The crossover on the WHOW is at 53Hz. At what bass frequency did you notice the EL34s begin to give up?

Great Listening,
John

Trejla , I feel I need to try the JJe34l in my JOR.
Now do you suggest I get the DA30 intergrated and experiement with 34 and 77's? Like you I am after vividness and brilliance, nothing flat sounding like the EH KT88's.
Will the DA30 accept 77's?
I'm not really interested in rollojng the 2 pre tubes in the JOR, as the changes will be too small to notice.