Kharma CRM 3.2F vs. Avalon Eidolon and Diamond

Getting back to the original topic which was Kharma 3.2 vs Avalon Eidolon (How quickly we forget).

I have owned both. I bought a pair of Eidolons in 1999, kept them 5 years, loved them, but decided to try something else.

Among others, I bought a pair of Kharma CRM 3.2FE speakers and initially I thought them to be incredible. The sound was glorious, Instrument placement was perfect, Soundstage - wide, deep and holographic. Everything about the speaker seemed to be sheer perfection. . . . Until . . . I listened for extended periods . . . and then . . . Headaches . . .dizzyness. . . disorientation . . . The worst case of listener fatique I had ever experienced.

While this speaker does sound fantastic, I absolutely cannot listen to it.

I have experienced the same sensation with other speakers - up to and including the highly touted Wilson Watt/Puppy 7.

The problem seems to be the Focal inverted dome titanium tweeter that is common to several of the speakers I've had problems with. Many have said that the Wilsons cause listener fatigue. I had not heard this about the Kharmas.

I loved the Kharma speakers until I just couldn't listen to them any more.

I sold them and have bought another pair of Avalon Eidolons. Not only do they sound "as good as" the Kharmas, but I can listen to them for hours on end with no problems whatever.

For my money, the Avalons are perfect.

well. yoiu are 100% right. wilson audio watt puppy and kharmas share the same xover topology(i will not tell what but it is with recpect to manufacturers but it is completely diferent that most speakers have ) that makes sound very open detailed and "light" . but focal tweetes and accuton ceamic drivers maks some ringing in this xover topoly. with very good components(very expensive silver paper in oil caps, foil inductors)it can be reduced. but no manufactures will put 800eur costing caps to 30 000eur speakers. its just too expensive for them. avalon eidolon are more technical sounding (like jmlab utopia) with ordinary xovers also xover slopes is sharper. they sound more technical and not fatiquing.
greets

Renaissance Audio Labs-
Speakers Designs -
http://www.hi-end.tk

My friend and I own the above mentioned speakers: Kharma 3.2 and Avalon Eidolon. Not saying that once I dropped my Kharma's to his place for listening, but, myself, spent substancial time listening to his system.
My system is Kharma/Tenor OTL/ Wavac, and my friends Eidolon/ CAT /ARC Ref3.
In view of above, the comparison is of no use, as CAT is not for Kharma, and Tenor is not the match for Avalon.
Eventually you evaluate the system vs system, and that will be more fair way to do so.
I did enjoyed the Avalons playing music. They are great speakers. They are big, able to deliver massive soundstage and will fit well into the large room,and will fill it with music.
Kharma are speakers that will give you midrange and dynamics, I never heard any other speaker will reproduce.
The comparison of BMW and Mercedes is the fine one, but, refining it further, I'd say, compare two seater convertible sports car with large sedan wichever brand you'd like.
You feel so great in two seater sports car, but you miss a bit of the space of a large car.
As we are close friends, we made a few steps to get into something common in the sound. I bought the CRM Sub to make sound more large scale, and my friend tuned his system to improve the dynamics, and midrange to match that of Tenor/Kharma combo.
What do I like is what I do have.
I like the bar, where I can be alone or with a few friends, getting finest drop of cognac, with Keith Jarrett playing intimately, just for you. This is Kharma as I see it.
If you like the large concert hall, where music is amplified and soundstage is big, this is Avalon for you.
There is no answer what is better. No one will convince Avalon owner, that Kharma is the better speaker overall.
This is matter of taste. My taste is Kharma, and I do think this is superior to Eidolons in overall texture.
My friend, I think, believe the same, although he never confessed.