KOETSU VERMILION and audio research PH7

First, as wlutke says, the output is at least 0.4mV, unless the cartridge is in the Platinum series, which I doubt because I don’t think Koetsu made a Platinum version of the Urushi types. (Vermilion is essentially a red Urushi.) Second, it’s not a good idea to mate a SUT into an MC phono section even if the input resistance is 47K ohms, because you are very likely to overload the stage. If input R is the more typical 100 ohms or any value much less than 47K, that’s a much worse situation. Don’t do it.

Forgot to say you should be ok as is in terms of gain. My Urushi Wajima  behaves as if it puts out more like 0.5-0.6mV.

Ok but VERMILION is 0.2, not 0.4, why some people says 0.2 about the VERMILION ?

You drove me to go to the website. You are correct. Koetsu lists the Vermilion as having an 0.2 millivolt output, much to my surprise. All the other Urushi variants are listed 0.4 millivolts. I can only conclude that something is different about the Vermilion. I don’t recall ever reading anything about it, but you probably do need to proceed on the assumption that the output is 0.2mV. In which case your present phono stage is marginal at best. But it is still not wise to insert an SUT before an MC phono stage.


 I suggest you give it a try with your present set up, and then decide whether in fact you need a higher gain MC phono stage. I think Koetsu measures output at a stylus velocity of 3.54 cm/sec, the old standard. The new standard for many years is 5 cm/sec, which would give a higher stated output. You might luck out if Koetsu is understating the output by current standards. Like I said, my Urushi behaves as if its output is greater than the claimed 0.4mV.

The spec on Vermillion is 0.2, and at least with the Koetsu Stones I’ve got their specs seem to be reasonably accurate (relative to Shelter, Ortofon) so I wouldn’t expect to benefit from some bonus output. You should proceed on the assumption that the Vermillion has half the output of any other Urushi (it uses a different coil design). I would not be happy with 58 dB on a 0.2 Koetsu. Not one bit. I’ve run 0.3 Onyx and Jade Platinums on a 60 dB Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 and it sucked the life and dynamics out of them (that phono stage sounds wonderful with other 0.5 - 0.6mV cartridges including an alnico Onyx). Koetsu work very well with SUTs into an MM stage, but that PH7 phono is not at all flexible enough to use like that. With that stage you’re kind of stuck with cartridges in the 0.5mV to 1mV range. I say it’s absolutely time to get a new phono stage. Don’t invest so much into such a wonderful cartridge and then squander it!